6 ms·

I don’t feel comfortable depending on a vendor to expose that switch. Once all the Secure Boot infrastructure is built out all it will take is one more decision

by Lammy 3y ago

I don’t feel comfortable depending on a vendor to expose that switch. Once all the Secure Boot infrastructure is built out all it will take is one more decision for them to stop giving me an option.

sounds 3y ago
Start installing coreboot then?
- Lammy 3y ago
  I do use coreboot on my 51nb faux-ThinkPad X210 thanks to @mjg59 :)
ok123456 3y ago
Some cheap laptops have forgotten to expose that switch.
- okanat 3y ago
  Then they cannot get Windows certification. Microsoft mandates Secure Boot disable setting for all x86 computers.
  - Gazoche 3y ago
    For now.
    - growse 3y ago
      Everything in life is only for now.
      - account42 3y ago
        Doesn't mean that accepting a situation where all it takes is a policy change is a good idea.
fragmede 3y ago
At which point all hardware that currently exists which you already own will get remotely updated out from under you so you can't boot your own kernel? I get that being allowed to run the code you want on hardware you own is paramount, but let's not live in fear of hypotheticals. There are already secured platforms like the Xbox/PS5/iphone where we don't have that option and the world hasn't ended.
- zlg_codes 3y ago
  How do you expect the ecosystem to look in 20 years? You're simply not thinking far enough ahead. "it's only a few right now don't worry about it" More happen. "okay maybe I see where you're coming from but it's still avoidable!" It continues. "I still have options I don't know what your problem is." Eventually, no choice. "How did we get here!?!?!" We need protective regulations that ensure that general computing is accessible to every citizen. Giants of industry are not entitled to control devices that they sell after they are sold.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    20 years from now, we're still going to want to run our own software. You're worried about falling down a slippery slope, and your concerns are valid, but it's called the slippery slope fallacy for a reason.
    - zlg_codes 3y ago
      I have seen no assurance that the slope is well-gritted. There is a proven inverse correlation between corporate powers and consumer freedoms. It's not fallacious in the slightest, you're simply enjoying the slide for now.
      - fragmede 3y ago
        That's your opinion. Smartphones have already brought about the trusted computing only world you fear, for non-technical users. The biggest distinction of general computing then, is the ability to run untrusted executables. Hardware is cheap enough these days that having a secure device dedicated to banking/whatever isn't out of the question. And with Google making virtual machines basically a primitive on Android, having an unlocked system but with trusted VMs inside seems to be the next step in allowing users to have local admistrative access, if they so choose. I don't doubt that ChromeBooks and iPadOS devices will. continue to be popular, but at the very least, there will always be a need for developers to have unrestricted systems to develop on, which, I believe, means that they'll exist until all software ever needed has been written.

by Lammy 3y ago

sounds 3y ago

Start installing coreboot then?

Lammy 3y ago
I do use coreboot on my 51nb faux-ThinkPad X210 thanks to @mjg59 :)

ok123456 3y ago

Some cheap laptops have forgotten to expose that switch.

okanat 3y ago
Then they cannot get Windows certification. Microsoft mandates Secure Boot disable setting for all x86 computers.
- Gazoche 3y ago
  For now.
  - growse 3y ago
    Everything in life is only for now.
    - account42 3y ago
      Doesn't mean that accepting a situation where all it takes is a policy change is a good idea.

fragmede 3y ago

At which point all hardware that currently exists which you already own will get remotely updated out from under you so you can't boot your own kernel? I get that being allowed to run the code you want on hardware you own is paramount, but let's not live in fear of hypotheticals. There are already secured platforms like the Xbox/PS5/iphone where we don't have that option and the world hasn't ended.

zlg_codes 3y ago
How do you expect the ecosystem to look in 20 years? You're simply not thinking far enough ahead. "it's only a few right now don't worry about it" More happen. "okay maybe I see where you're coming from but it's still avoidable!" It continues. "I still have options I don't know what your problem is." Eventually, no choice. "How did we get here!?!?!" We need protective regulations that ensure that general computing is accessible to every citizen. Giants of industry are not entitled to control devices that they sell after they are sold.
- fragmede 3y ago
  20 years from now, we're still going to want to run our own software. You're worried about falling down a slippery slope, and your concerns are valid, but it's called the slippery slope fallacy for a reason.
  - zlg_codes 3y ago
    I have seen no assurance that the slope is well-gritted. There is a proven inverse correlation between corporate powers and consumer freedoms. It's not fallacious in the slightest, you're simply enjoying the slide for now.
    - fragmede 3y ago
      That's your opinion. Smartphones have already brought about the trusted computing only world you fear, for non-technical users. The biggest distinction of general computing then, is the ability to run untrusted executables. Hardware is cheap enough these days that having a secure device dedicated to banking/whatever isn't out of the question. And with Google making virtual machines basically a primitive on Android, having an unlocked system but with trusted VMs inside seems to be the next step in allowing users to have local admistrative access, if they so choose. I don't doubt that ChromeBooks and iPadOS devices will. continue to be popular, but at the very least, there will always be a need for developers to have unrestricted systems to develop on, which, I believe, means that they'll exist until all software ever needed has been written.