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they should be first notified and allowed to choose, at the very least, not automatically stripped of one. someone could wind up stateless this way, when both c

they should be first notified and allowed to choose, at the very least, not automatically stripped of one. someone could wind up stateless this way, when both countries are acting the same way at the same time. also, exit stamps? Japan is really backwards in this way.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago
Most developed countries stamp on the way out. The USA is an odd man out in not checking passports of outgoing people at border crossings. Even in Schengen where a computer system was rolled out that automatically flags overstays, etc., it is still common for passport control to scrutinize foreigners' stamps just in case some previous passport control didn't properly enter the movement into the computer system.
- globular-toast 3y ago
  Come to think of it, the UK doesn't check passports on the way out either.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  Nowadays many countries look at the passport, but don't physically stamp it. They keep their own electronic record, and don't put it where other countries can see it.
phantom784 3y ago
Sounds like it's far from automatic. (Well, perhaps "legally" you automatically lose it, but there's no system that actually tells Japan that one of their citizens has gotten another citizenship.) She became a U.S. citizen in 2004. After traveling back and forth between her home countries with both nationalities for years, she was flagged as being a dual citizen in 2017 — first at a passport office in Tokyo, where her passport was confiscated and her application rejected, and then by airport immigration officials when they realized she was exiting Japan with an American passport that had no entrance stamp. So it took them 13 years to figure this out, and if she were actively trying to conceal her US citizenship, could probably have held both indefinitely.
- resolutebat 3y ago
  Yup. Unlike some countries like China, Japan does not go out of its way to catch dual citizens and it is extremely rare for somebody to actually involuntarily lose their Jp citizenship.
  - phantom784 3y ago
    How does China figure it out?
    - resolutebat 3y ago
      If you're a Chinese citizen, you are not allowed to leave China unless you show a Chinese passport with a valid visa for your destination. You can still get around this by going via a third country, but then they can ask for a return ticket from that country etc. The only foolproof way to evade the system and keep citizenship in a 2nd country is to acquire permanent residence in 3rd country!
snakeyjake 3y ago
>also, exit stamps? Japan is really backwards in this way. In 2019 I spent three months in Japan consulting for a very large and very recognizable Japanese aerospace company that was partnered with my employer. Let's not focus on the bureaucratic nightmare my folks went through to make that happen, and the dozens upon dozens of paper forms I had to fill out daily/weekly. Let's focus on the boxes and boxes of floppy disks they had on their supply shelves. Floppy disks that were needed, in 2019, to perform critical business functions. Japan is spectacularly backwards in many ways.
- gramie 3y ago
  Don't forget the fax machines and inkans (personal stamps)!
resolutebat 3y ago
There are two ways to lose Japanese citizenship: 1) As an adult, consciously acquire another citizenship. 2) If you acquired another citizenship involuntarily as a child (eg. being born), at 21 you are required to choose one nationality. If you do nothing, you will stay Japanese on paper.
jeffchien 3y ago
The incident happened in 2017 and automated gates were installed in major Japanese airports in 2018. (Funnily enough the last exit stamp I got was from Gare du Nord in early 2020, as PARAFE eGates wasn't extended to US passports back then)
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  whats funny or interesting about that? I missed several crucial details about two different country’s automated systems that wont be the same either way

OfSanguineFire 3y ago

Most developed countries stamp on the way out. The USA is an odd man out in not checking passports of outgoing people at border crossings. Even in Schengen where a computer system was rolled out that automatically flags overstays, etc., it is still common for passport control to scrutinize foreigners' stamps just in case some previous passport control didn't properly enter the movement into the computer system.

globular-toast 3y ago
Come to think of it, the UK doesn't check passports on the way out either.
Symbiote 3y ago
Nowadays many countries look at the passport, but don't physically stamp it. They keep their own electronic record, and don't put it where other countries can see it.

phantom784 3y ago

Sounds like it's far from automatic. (Well, perhaps "legally" you automatically lose it, but there's no system that actually tells Japan that one of their citizens has gotten another citizenship.) She became a U.S. citizen in 2004. After traveling back and forth between her home countries with both nationalities for years, she was flagged as being a dual citizen in 2017 — first at a passport office in Tokyo, where her passport was confiscated and her application rejected, and then by airport immigration officials when they realized she was exiting Japan with an American passport that had no entrance stamp. So it took them 13 years to figure this out, and if she were actively trying to conceal her US citizenship, could probably have held both indefinitely.

resolutebat 3y ago
Yup. Unlike some countries like China, Japan does not go out of its way to catch dual citizens and it is extremely rare for somebody to actually involuntarily lose their Jp citizenship.
- phantom784 3y ago
  How does China figure it out?
  - resolutebat 3y ago
    If you're a Chinese citizen, you are not allowed to leave China unless you show a Chinese passport with a valid visa for your destination. You can still get around this by going via a third country, but then they can ask for a return ticket from that country etc. The only foolproof way to evade the system and keep citizenship in a 2nd country is to acquire permanent residence in 3rd country!

snakeyjake 3y ago

>also, exit stamps? Japan is really backwards in this way. In 2019 I spent three months in Japan consulting for a very large and very recognizable Japanese aerospace company that was partnered with my employer. Let's not focus on the bureaucratic nightmare my folks went through to make that happen, and the dozens upon dozens of paper forms I had to fill out daily/weekly. Let's focus on the boxes and boxes of floppy disks they had on their supply shelves. Floppy disks that were needed, in 2019, to perform critical business functions. Japan is spectacularly backwards in many ways.

gramie 3y ago
Don't forget the fax machines and inkans (personal stamps)!

resolutebat 3y ago

There are two ways to lose Japanese citizenship: 1) As an adult, consciously acquire another citizenship. 2) If you acquired another citizenship involuntarily as a child (eg. being born), at 21 you are required to choose one nationality. If you do nothing, you will stay Japanese on paper.

jeffchien 3y ago

The incident happened in 2017 and automated gates were installed in major Japanese airports in 2018. (Funnily enough the last exit stamp I got was from Gare du Nord in early 2020, as PARAFE eGates wasn't extended to US passports back then)

yieldcrv 3y ago
whats funny or interesting about that? I missed several crucial details about two different country’s automated systems that wont be the same either way