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I know a couple of Japanese-American kids who grew up in the US and were forced to choose when they turned 18. There was no way they were giving up American nat

I know a couple of Japanese-American kids who grew up in the US and were forced to choose when they turned 18. There was no way they were giving up American nationality, so they sadly had to give up their Japanese nationality, which they did not want to do but was the lesser of two evils. This law is so outdated and unfortunate.

Grimburger 3y ago
>This law is so outdated and unfortunate. What's your thoughts on the people who have citizenship and hold passports for dozens of countries? Would you consider them "citizens" of your country? There's nothing outdated about it. Dual/multi citizenship is the weird concept here, it's used solely to skirt laws and taxation. Why do your friends need Japanese citizenship?
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  "Solely"? You didn't think this through well. Dual citizenship very often comes from being born to parents of two different nationalities under ius sanguinis, and then the two passports might even be essential for being able to regularly visit both sides of the family without having to deal with the visa issues that could arise from one of the passports being weak. Countries with diasporas to the US or other wealthy countries often permit dual citizenship because they want some of that diaspora to return, at least to retire, and bring some of that wealth back, and letting them keep their old citizenship leaves the door open for that.
  - Grimburger 3y ago
    >and bring some of that wealth back Would they do that if there wasn't monetary advantages? Absolutely nothing is stopping them sending a remittance like many of the world already do. There's significant differences between jurisdictions for company rates and capital gains, that world really opens up with a few different passports. Having lived in quite a few countries, I don't buy it, these people pick and choose as they please while others not able to get 2,3 or 7 passports pay for those folks benefit to extract as much as possible. I'm with the Asian countries on this one, it's a sham. Many of my friends make jokes about this stuff and illegally hold dual/tri citizenship in the west despite their own country not recognising it, getting caught for that is quite hard. >that diaspora to return, at least to retire Is this not an admission that it's used to take money from other countries they once put hand on heart to support in a pledge of allegiance and go retire with $2/hr maids plus an on-call chef only to return for healthcare and pension reasons in old age? That's not a hypothetical, I've seen this unashamedly happen with friends parents.
- anaisbetts 3y ago
  > There's nothing outdated about it. Dual/multi citizenship is the weird concept here, it's used solely to skirt laws and taxation. This is absolute nonsense. There are many, many scenarios where people end up with dual citizenship that are entirely valid. Forcibly disenfranchising someone of their oftentimes born Right to be a citizen of a country is the Crime here.
  - Grimburger 3y ago
    > their oftentimes born Right I know people with Italian citizenship simply because of their grandparent. They've never once been to Italy, can't speak the language nor have any plans to do so, they mock their own culture all the time. Meanwhile having lived there for a year and can handle the language reasonably well after that time, my chances for naturalisation are basically nil. "Born right" is a hilarious concept.
- windowshopping 3y ago
  There's a pretty huge difference between dual nationality - which anyone could end up with purely by virtue of having parents from different countries - and "dozens" of nationalities. Conflating these two cases and acting like the latter is the norm is such a nonsensical thing to say that it makes it clear you're arguing in bad faith, so I'm not going to respond any further to what you've said. You don't actually want to talk about this, you just want people to have your opinion.
  - Grimburger 3y ago
    > it makes it clear you're arguing in bad faith You really think that people with dual nationality don't use whichever one suits them most in all sorts of matters regarding taxation, diplomatic assistance and travel? To pretend that people won't try to gain whatever edge they can in life with the tools available is the nonsensical thing here. A dual Malaysian/Australian citizen, which passport do you think they are using heading into LAX? Which passport do you think they will use visiting Iran? Dual citizenship is a furphy, I'm with the Asian countries on this one. Choose a side.
gramie 3y ago
They would have had to choose at 20, not 18 (in Japan, 20 is the age of majority). Also, no one comes after you to choose. Perhaps when you renew your passport, but I do know some Japanese people who just never filled out the paperwork to select a nationality, and continued with both citizenships. Kind of Schroedinger's passport.
- windowshopping 3y ago
  You're right, the ones who had to choose were turning 20. I misspoke because I didn't examine the memory closely enough.
  - nearting 3y ago
    It depends on when this happened. It's two years after you reach the age of majority, which was 20 for a long time but is now 18. Since 2022 you have until 20 to decide, down from 22 previously: https://www.moj.go.jp/EN/MINJI/minji06.html https://www.moj.go.jp/EN/MINJI/minji06.html
- nearting 3y ago
  A lot of consulates don't enforce the choice of nationality. Every time I renew my Japanese passport in the US I need to show proof of lawful residence, which is my American passport. I just get handed a brochure about choosing and it doesn't get brought up again until the next renewal.
- mirashii 3y ago
  Waiting til 20 works only if you're willing to wait to accept the benefits of US Citizenship until you are 20. My mother was in this category, and shortly after she registered to vote in the US, she received a letter stating that her Japanese citizenship was therefore revoked.

Grimburger 3y ago

>This law is so outdated and unfortunate. What's your thoughts on the people who have citizenship and hold passports for dozens of countries? Would you consider them "citizens" of your country? There's nothing outdated about it. Dual/multi citizenship is the weird concept here, it's used solely to skirt laws and taxation. Why do your friends need Japanese citizenship?

OfSanguineFire 3y ago
"Solely"? You didn't think this through well. Dual citizenship very often comes from being born to parents of two different nationalities under ius sanguinis, and then the two passports might even be essential for being able to regularly visit both sides of the family without having to deal with the visa issues that could arise from one of the passports being weak. Countries with diasporas to the US or other wealthy countries often permit dual citizenship because they want some of that diaspora to return, at least to retire, and bring some of that wealth back, and letting them keep their old citizenship leaves the door open for that.
- Grimburger 3y ago
  >and bring some of that wealth back Would they do that if there wasn't monetary advantages? Absolutely nothing is stopping them sending a remittance like many of the world already do. There's significant differences between jurisdictions for company rates and capital gains, that world really opens up with a few different passports. Having lived in quite a few countries, I don't buy it, these people pick and choose as they please while others not able to get 2,3 or 7 passports pay for those folks benefit to extract as much as possible. I'm with the Asian countries on this one, it's a sham. Many of my friends make jokes about this stuff and illegally hold dual/tri citizenship in the west despite their own country not recognising it, getting caught for that is quite hard. >that diaspora to return, at least to retire Is this not an admission that it's used to take money from other countries they once put hand on heart to support in a pledge of allegiance and go retire with $2/hr maids plus an on-call chef only to return for healthcare and pension reasons in old age? That's not a hypothetical, I've seen this unashamedly happen with friends parents.
anaisbetts 3y ago
> There's nothing outdated about it. Dual/multi citizenship is the weird concept here, it's used solely to skirt laws and taxation. This is absolute nonsense. There are many, many scenarios where people end up with dual citizenship that are entirely valid. Forcibly disenfranchising someone of their oftentimes born Right to be a citizen of a country is the Crime here.
- Grimburger 3y ago
  > their oftentimes born Right I know people with Italian citizenship simply because of their grandparent. They've never once been to Italy, can't speak the language nor have any plans to do so, they mock their own culture all the time. Meanwhile having lived there for a year and can handle the language reasonably well after that time, my chances for naturalisation are basically nil. "Born right" is a hilarious concept.
windowshopping 3y ago
There's a pretty huge difference between dual nationality - which anyone could end up with purely by virtue of having parents from different countries - and "dozens" of nationalities. Conflating these two cases and acting like the latter is the norm is such a nonsensical thing to say that it makes it clear you're arguing in bad faith, so I'm not going to respond any further to what you've said. You don't actually want to talk about this, you just want people to have your opinion.
- Grimburger 3y ago
  > it makes it clear you're arguing in bad faith You really think that people with dual nationality don't use whichever one suits them most in all sorts of matters regarding taxation, diplomatic assistance and travel? To pretend that people won't try to gain whatever edge they can in life with the tools available is the nonsensical thing here. A dual Malaysian/Australian citizen, which passport do you think they are using heading into LAX? Which passport do you think they will use visiting Iran? Dual citizenship is a furphy, I'm with the Asian countries on this one. Choose a side.

gramie 3y ago

They would have had to choose at 20, not 18 (in Japan, 20 is the age of majority). Also, no one comes after you to choose. Perhaps when you renew your passport, but I do know some Japanese people who just never filled out the paperwork to select a nationality, and continued with both citizenships. Kind of Schroedinger's passport.

windowshopping 3y ago
You're right, the ones who had to choose were turning 20. I misspoke because I didn't examine the memory closely enough.
- nearting 3y ago
  It depends on when this happened. It's two years after you reach the age of majority, which was 20 for a long time but is now 18. Since 2022 you have until 20 to decide, down from 22 previously: https://www.moj.go.jp/EN/MINJI/minji06.html https://www.moj.go.jp/EN/MINJI/minji06.html
nearting 3y ago
A lot of consulates don't enforce the choice of nationality. Every time I renew my Japanese passport in the US I need to show proof of lawful residence, which is my American passport. I just get handed a brochure about choosing and it doesn't get brought up again until the next renewal.
mirashii 3y ago
Waiting til 20 works only if you're willing to wait to accept the benefits of US Citizenship until you are 20. My mother was in this category, and shortly after she registered to vote in the US, she received a letter stating that her Japanese citizenship was therefore revoked.