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Everytime I hear of a couple having serious issues and considering therapy, I always recommend they talk to a priest instead. Ive been doing this for almost 10

Everytime I hear of a couple having serious issues and considering therapy, I always recommend they talk to a priest instead. Ive been doing this for almost 10 years. Basically all that rejected the idea broke up, divorced, or are are still more miserable than ever. The one couple I know that talked to several priests in the end, is happier than ever. Small sample size but it makes sense to me. Priests study people and have experience bonding people. Therapists seem to have experience separating people.

hotpotamus 3y ago
Any particular denomination?
- mschuster91 3y ago
  IMHO, those of Lutheran Protestant belief - at least here in Germany the Lutherans are just about the most welcoming people you can get. Catholic ones push far too much anti-contraceptive, anti-LGBT, "marriage is sacrosanct" and other questionable stuff, and Evangelical/Amish/Pentecostal/Mormons tend to be even more nuts than the Catholics (we have everything but the Amish here as well).
  - talldatethrow 3y ago
    What is "questionable" about what Catholics push. I'm a western degenerate basically, but even I understand why they say what they say. For example, while I might enjoy casual sex, I get that if I followed what's best for me, I really would abstain from having sex outside of marriage. And even in marriage, sex would hold more meaning and be even more bonding if there was a chance of a child being born. If that means I'd have a lot less sex, so be it, I still think that would be best. I could explain lgbt issues also from their angle, but that would just upset HN. What you call questionable, is just as questionable from their side towards your views. What do you think is more questionable.. waiting til you find someone very important to you, who promises to join you for life, before you have sex... Or a sorority girl having sex with two dudes at the same time at 19 yrs old because one made her laugh a lot and his roommate is really good looking. (I was the funny one in this story 20 years ago)
jstarfish 3y ago
> I always recommend they talk to a priest instead. [...] Priests study people and have experience bonding people. I disagree. The only difference between a priest and a therapist is that one blames God and the other blames everybody except You. Both are salesmen who externalize your problems on your behalf. The church has a unique triangulation tactic in that they can bond a couple against supernatural forces. Therapy doesn't have that. The closest they come is blaming someone's parents.
- talldatethrow 3y ago
  I'm not a practicing Christian, but I listen to semi religious talks sometimes. I have almost never ever heard a thoughtful person blame God, nor even say he has any sway at all. Maybe on sugar coated pop religion channels, sure. But not from anyone serious about study and thought about the books or God. I haven't spoken to a priest in 20 years, and that's mostly because I'm afraid of just how keen they are on "this is your fault/responsibility". They wouldn't blame anything on God IMO, but if they did, they would be very clear that the reaction to the problems is 100% on you.
  - jstarfish 3y ago
    > I have almost never ever heard a thoughtful person blame God, nor even say he has any sway at all. I'm drawing from a Catholic/Lutheran upbringing from decades ago, but the verbiage is never "this is God's fault," it is kinder euphemisms like "this is God's plan" or "God is testing us." You're expected to endure whatever it is, not react to it. Whatever it is that you're going through was always supposed to happen, so keep marching onward, Christian soldier, out of faith that God will guide you out of this and that there will be cake at the end of the trial. > They wouldn't blame anything on God IMO, but if they did, they would be very clear that the reaction to the problems is 100% on you. Well, Catholics lean this way I guess, but what I remember was more shaming people for being bad adherents to the faith, not so much grandma died because you touch yourself. She was always going to die when she did because God willed it.
legitster 3y ago
I'll echo the idea, but will also admit that there is a bit of survivorship fallacy here. If you are willing to suck it up and ask a pastor/priest for help, you probably already believe that a marriage is an important/sacred thing worth preserving and are willing to accept some authority and make sacrifices.
goles 3y ago
Interesting anecdote. If you click through the article to the actual study[0] the article actually references, the data is broken down into the changes in each population. The lowest growth population is Religious communities but it also has one of the higher decreases in population, which means it was one of the ones that changed the least over the past 12 months. However, Religious communities is closest to Rural communities and Veterans. [0]https://www.apa.org/pubs/reports/practitioner/2023-psychologist-reach-limits https://www.apa.org/pubs/reports/practitioner/2023-psycholog...
ViktorV 3y ago
One data point: I've been to couples therapy quite a few years ago and we've been getting better and better ever since. From my experience a priest would go into that discussion with the goal of keeping the couple together, while the therapist would want ( a good one ) the best for them, whatever that may be. If your goal is to stay together with someone don't go to a therapist.

hotpotamus 3y ago

Any particular denomination?

mschuster91 3y ago
IMHO, those of Lutheran Protestant belief - at least here in Germany the Lutherans are just about the most welcoming people you can get. Catholic ones push far too much anti-contraceptive, anti-LGBT, "marriage is sacrosanct" and other questionable stuff, and Evangelical/Amish/Pentecostal/Mormons tend to be even more nuts than the Catholics (we have everything but the Amish here as well).
- talldatethrow 3y ago
  What is "questionable" about what Catholics push. I'm a western degenerate basically, but even I understand why they say what they say. For example, while I might enjoy casual sex, I get that if I followed what's best for me, I really would abstain from having sex outside of marriage. And even in marriage, sex would hold more meaning and be even more bonding if there was a chance of a child being born. If that means I'd have a lot less sex, so be it, I still think that would be best. I could explain lgbt issues also from their angle, but that would just upset HN. What you call questionable, is just as questionable from their side towards your views. What do you think is more questionable.. waiting til you find someone very important to you, who promises to join you for life, before you have sex... Or a sorority girl having sex with two dudes at the same time at 19 yrs old because one made her laugh a lot and his roommate is really good looking. (I was the funny one in this story 20 years ago)

jstarfish 3y ago

> I always recommend they talk to a priest instead. [...] Priests study people and have experience bonding people. I disagree. The only difference between a priest and a therapist is that one blames God and the other blames everybody except You. Both are salesmen who externalize your problems on your behalf. The church has a unique triangulation tactic in that they can bond a couple against supernatural forces. Therapy doesn't have that. The closest they come is blaming someone's parents.

talldatethrow 3y ago
I'm not a practicing Christian, but I listen to semi religious talks sometimes. I have almost never ever heard a thoughtful person blame God, nor even say he has any sway at all. Maybe on sugar coated pop religion channels, sure. But not from anyone serious about study and thought about the books or God. I haven't spoken to a priest in 20 years, and that's mostly because I'm afraid of just how keen they are on "this is your fault/responsibility". They wouldn't blame anything on God IMO, but if they did, they would be very clear that the reaction to the problems is 100% on you.
- jstarfish 3y ago
  > I have almost never ever heard a thoughtful person blame God, nor even say he has any sway at all. I'm drawing from a Catholic/Lutheran upbringing from decades ago, but the verbiage is never "this is God's fault," it is kinder euphemisms like "this is God's plan" or "God is testing us." You're expected to endure whatever it is, not react to it. Whatever it is that you're going through was always supposed to happen, so keep marching onward, Christian soldier, out of faith that God will guide you out of this and that there will be cake at the end of the trial. > They wouldn't blame anything on God IMO, but if they did, they would be very clear that the reaction to the problems is 100% on you. Well, Catholics lean this way I guess, but what I remember was more shaming people for being bad adherents to the faith, not so much grandma died because you touch yourself. She was always going to die when she did because God willed it.

legitster 3y ago

I'll echo the idea, but will also admit that there is a bit of survivorship fallacy here. If you are willing to suck it up and ask a pastor/priest for help, you probably already believe that a marriage is an important/sacred thing worth preserving and are willing to accept some authority and make sacrifices.

goles 3y ago

Interesting anecdote. If you click through the article to the actual study[0] the article actually references, the data is broken down into the changes in each population. The lowest growth population is Religious communities but it also has one of the higher decreases in population, which means it was one of the ones that changed the least over the past 12 months. However, Religious communities is closest to Rural communities and Veterans. [0]https://www.apa.org/pubs/reports/practitioner/2023-psychologist-reach-limits https://www.apa.org/pubs/reports/practitioner/2023-psycholog...

ViktorV 3y ago

One data point: I've been to couples therapy quite a few years ago and we've been getting better and better ever since. From my experience a priest would go into that discussion with the goal of keeping the couple together, while the therapist would want ( a good one ) the best for them, whatever that may be. If your goal is to stay together with someone don't go to a therapist.