3 ms·

Suppose I "buy" a piece of digital media, which let's agree for the sake of argument actually means "bought a license for". Suppose I also then torrent a copy o

Suppose I "buy" a piece of digital media, which let's agree for the sake of argument actually means "bought a license for". Suppose I also then torrent a copy of that same media for the purpose of backup and/or offline access. Is it still piracy? After all, I have a license for it.

zerocrates 3y ago
In practical terms for most people most of the time this is going to be a purely moral question; you're not going to face any consequences so it's just down to what you consider legitimate. Legally, "owning" an episode of a TV show on Playstation Network (to take the current example) doesn't give you any right to download a copy from elsewhere. Same for owning (this time in a more real sense) a copy on disc. Maybe you could make a fair use argument fly; I'm skeptical.
c0pium 3y ago
> Is it still piracy? Yes. > I have a license for it. The “it” for which you have a license is not the media you torrented. It’s the version you access from the licensor via the licensed mechanism. These kind of faux-legal arguments are extremely tiresome because they’re proposing gotcha hypotheticals which are clearly covered in the text of the license.
hughesjj 3y ago
> Is it still piracy? Legally you can make personal backups of media you purchase, subject to any licensing restrictions. That said technically it's still piracy if you're sending chunks to other peers since you don't have distribution rights. This is why copyright cases usually go after the seeders
- c0pium 3y ago
  You should be careful with that advice, as virtually all media that you might want to backup contains drm, and there is no exemption to the DMCA for bypassing drm for personal or archival (unless you’re a museum) use. There are such exemptions for things like critique and education.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    >and there is no exemption to the DMCA for bypassing drm for personal or archival (unless you’re a museum) use Sure, there technically isn't. But in reality, there's no practical way to enforce this without breaking much bigger laws. So very few companies care about some single person breaking DRM, if they are made aware at all. The main exception would come from online games. But the "worst" retaliation you'd get is your account being banned. THey may not even bother sending a C&D despite companies technically being able to detect it unless you were cheating (which breaks the EULA, different from DMCA).
    - c0pium 3y ago
      Your comment isn’t responsive to what I wrote. I was making a very narrow point responding to the phrase “Legally you can make personal backups…” by pointing out that you frequently cannot legally make those backups. Whether it’s possible and whether you’re likely to face consequences have no bearing on it's legality.
      - johnnyanmac 3y ago
        >Whether it’s possible and whether you’re likely to face consequences have no bearing on it's legality. If a law is written but never enforced, is it really a law? On a technical level, yes. On a practical level, no. A law that is practically impossible to enforce is at best an add-on charge for someone being thrown the book for an actually enforced law, not one people worry about when weighing consequences. I don't think it's too productive to only talk in terms of spherical cows in a vacuum, so it's a point worth keeping in mind for anyone interested in such conversation.
  - hughesjj 3y ago
    Depends if you rip it to mpeg or just dd it though right? True though, but I was hoping the 'subject to licensing restrictions' would cover it

zerocrates 3y ago

In practical terms for most people most of the time this is going to be a purely moral question; you're not going to face any consequences so it's just down to what you consider legitimate. Legally, "owning" an episode of a TV show on Playstation Network (to take the current example) doesn't give you any right to download a copy from elsewhere. Same for owning (this time in a more real sense) a copy on disc. Maybe you could make a fair use argument fly; I'm skeptical.

c0pium 3y ago

> Is it still piracy? Yes. > I have a license for it. The “it” for which you have a license is not the media you torrented. It’s the version you access from the licensor via the licensed mechanism. These kind of faux-legal arguments are extremely tiresome because they’re proposing gotcha hypotheticals which are clearly covered in the text of the license.

hughesjj 3y ago

> Is it still piracy? Legally you can make personal backups of media you purchase, subject to any licensing restrictions. That said technically it's still piracy if you're sending chunks to other peers since you don't have distribution rights. This is why copyright cases usually go after the seeders

c0pium 3y ago
You should be careful with that advice, as virtually all media that you might want to backup contains drm, and there is no exemption to the DMCA for bypassing drm for personal or archival (unless you’re a museum) use. There are such exemptions for things like critique and education.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >and there is no exemption to the DMCA for bypassing drm for personal or archival (unless you’re a museum) use Sure, there technically isn't. But in reality, there's no practical way to enforce this without breaking much bigger laws. So very few companies care about some single person breaking DRM, if they are made aware at all. The main exception would come from online games. But the "worst" retaliation you'd get is your account being banned. THey may not even bother sending a C&D despite companies technically being able to detect it unless you were cheating (which breaks the EULA, different from DMCA).
  - c0pium 3y ago
    Your comment isn’t responsive to what I wrote. I was making a very narrow point responding to the phrase “Legally you can make personal backups…” by pointing out that you frequently cannot legally make those backups. Whether it’s possible and whether you’re likely to face consequences have no bearing on it's legality.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      >Whether it’s possible and whether you’re likely to face consequences have no bearing on it's legality. If a law is written but never enforced, is it really a law? On a technical level, yes. On a practical level, no. A law that is practically impossible to enforce is at best an add-on charge for someone being thrown the book for an actually enforced law, not one people worry about when weighing consequences. I don't think it's too productive to only talk in terms of spherical cows in a vacuum, so it's a point worth keeping in mind for anyone interested in such conversation.
- hughesjj 3y ago
  Depends if you rip it to mpeg or just dd it though right? True though, but I was hoping the 'subject to licensing restrictions' would cover it