5 ms·

google is the new IBM. apple is the new Nokia. openai is the new google. microsoft is the new apple.

by behnamoh 3y ago

brandall10 3y ago
How is MS the new Apple? Apple has always been a product company, not seeing MS ever being that.
- jboy55 3y ago
  Apple is the new Sony might be better. I'm trying to figure out who is the upcoming premium tech product company... not thinking of any. I think Tesla wants to be
  - bozhark 3y ago
    They can’t even get panels to line up right. Still.
  - ethbr1 3y ago
    The issue with new premium tech is that you can't over-the-top existing ecosystems (Android, iOS). It's difficult to compete with an excellent product if whether you have a blue bubble in iMessage is more important.
  - sebastiennight 3y ago
    Humane definitely wants to be.
- alaskamiller 3y ago
  Xbox, Surface. Holo didn't go far. May return back to mobile in some form soon. Services, and their sales team, are still Microsoft's strong point. Apple seeing its services grow and is leaning in on it now. The question is whether Apple eats services faster than Microsoft eats into hardware.
  - ethbr1 3y ago
    Afaict, Windows Phone mostly failed because of timing. In the same way that XBox mostly succeeded because of timing. (In the sense that timing dominated the huge amount of excellent work that went into both) Microsoft is a decent physical product company... they've usually just missed on the strategic timing part.
    - Wazako 3y ago
      It's not a question of timing, but of Microsoft's brand image (Internet Explorer) and the fact that Android was already open source.
      - ethbr1 3y ago
        "Open source" in the sense there was open source. Which you could use if you were willing to jettison Maps et al. Given dog eat dog of early Android manufacturers, most couldn't afford to recreate Google services.
        Wazako 3y ago
        By this I mean that Microsoft had the positioning of an iPhone in a not-so-great version. Where as Android relied on the "Open source" and free side for manufacturers to adapt to their phones, even if Google's services remained proprietary. Can we really talk about timing, when it's above all a problem of a product that didn't fit the market?
      - brandall10 3y ago
        Timing was definitely an issue - first Windows Phone came 3 years after iOS and 2 after Android. AFA the product itself, I think the perception it needed to overcome was more PocketPC/Windows Mobile having an incredibly substandard image in the market after the iOS release which seemed light years ahead, esp. since MS had that market to themselves for so many years. That said, it got great reviews and they threw $$ at devs to develop for it, just couldn't gain traction. IME it was timing more than anything and by the time it came to market felt more reactionary than truly innovative.
troupe 3y ago
> apple is the new Nokia. You obviously haven't dropped an iphone on to concrete. :)
- xanderlewis 3y ago
  When did you last try? I’m too embarrassed to say how often and onto what kind of surfaces my iPhone 12 has been dropped, but I’m amazed it’s still seemingly completely functional. My iPhone 4, on the other hand, shattered after one incident…
- behnamoh 3y ago
  I was more referring to Nokia's complacency which led to its demise. Nokia was infamous for incremental updates to their phone line, making users upgrade regularly. You could never find a "complete" Nokia phone; each phone was deliberately crippled some how. Apple does the same with their iDevices.
- LASR 3y ago
  Have you dropped the iPhone 14 Pro? Or 11 Pro? These are literally stainless steel. The 15s with their titanium is a step back. The 11 Pro with its older curved edges has been the most solidly built phone ever IMO.
- kolinko 3y ago
  Happens to me regularly, I think they reached a level of Nokia a few years back :) I even dropped my iPhone 13 four floors (onto wood), and not a scratch :o
bionhoward 3y ago
No, because OpenAI and Microsoft both have “CUSTOMER NONCOMPETE CLAUSES” in their terms of use. I didn’t check Apple, but Google doesn’t have any shady monopolistic stuff like that. Proof OpenAI has this shady monopolistic stuff: https://archive.ph/vVdIC https://archive.ph/vVdIC “What You Cannot Do. You may not use our Services for any illegal, harmful, or abusive activity. For example, you may not: […] Use Output to develop models that compete with OpenAI.” (Hilarious how that reads btw) Proof Microsoft has this shady monopolistic stuff: https://archive.ph/N5iVq https://archive.ph/N5iVq “AI Services. ”AI services” are services that are labeled or described by Microsoft as including, using, powered by, or being an Artificial Intelligence (“AI”) system. Limits on use of data from the AI Services. You may not use the AI services, or data from the AI services, to create, train, or improve (directly or indirectly) any other AI service.” That 100% does include GitHub Copilot, by the way. I canceled my sub. After I emailed Satya, they told me to post my “feedback” in a forum for issues about Xbox and Word (what a joke). I emailed the FTC Antitrust team. I filed a formal complaint with the office of the attorney general of the state of Washington. I am just one person. You should also raise a ruckus about this and contact the authorities, because it’s morally bankrupt and almost surely unlawful by virtue of extreme unfairness and unreasonableness, in addition to precedent. AWS, Anthropic, and NVIDIA also all have similar Customer Noncompete Clauses. I meekly suggest everyone immediately and completely boycott OpenAI, Microsoft, AWS, Anthropic, and NVIDIA, until they remove these customer noncompete clauses (which seem contrary to the Sherman Antitrust Act). Just imagine a world where AI can freely learn from us, but we are forbidden to learn from AI. Sounds like a boring dystopia, and we ought to make sure to avoid it.
- dash2 3y ago
  Why's it wrong to not let people use your output to build their own services? 1. I wouldn't let someone copy my code written directly by me. Why should I let someone copy the code my machine wrote? 2. There are obvious technical worries about feedback loops.
  - nacs 3y ago
    > Why should I let someone copy the code my machine wrote Because that machine/openAI was built on literally scraping the internet (regardless of copyright or website's ToS) and ingesting printed books.
pwarner 3y ago
I have considered Oracle and MS to be competing for the title of new IBM. Maybe MS is shaking it off with their AI innovation, but I think a lot of that is just lipstick.

google is the new IBM. apple is the new Nokia. openai is the new google. microsoft is the new apple.

brandall10 3y ago

How is MS the new Apple? Apple has always been a product company, not seeing MS ever being that.

jboy55 3y ago
Apple is the new Sony might be better. I'm trying to figure out who is the upcoming premium tech product company... not thinking of any. I think Tesla wants to be
- bozhark 3y ago
  They can’t even get panels to line up right. Still.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  The issue with new premium tech is that you can't over-the-top existing ecosystems (Android, iOS). It's difficult to compete with an excellent product if whether you have a blue bubble in iMessage is more important.
- sebastiennight 3y ago
  Humane definitely wants to be.
alaskamiller 3y ago
Xbox, Surface. Holo didn't go far. May return back to mobile in some form soon. Services, and their sales team, are still Microsoft's strong point. Apple seeing its services grow and is leaning in on it now. The question is whether Apple eats services faster than Microsoft eats into hardware.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  Afaict, Windows Phone mostly failed because of timing. In the same way that XBox mostly succeeded because of timing. (In the sense that timing dominated the huge amount of excellent work that went into both) Microsoft is a decent physical product company... they've usually just missed on the strategic timing part.
  - Wazako 3y ago
    It's not a question of timing, but of Microsoft's brand image (Internet Explorer) and the fact that Android was already open source.
    - ethbr1 3y ago
      "Open source" in the sense there was open source. Which you could use if you were willing to jettison Maps et al. Given dog eat dog of early Android manufacturers, most couldn't afford to recreate Google services.
      - Wazako 3y ago
        By this I mean that Microsoft had the positioning of an iPhone in a not-so-great version. Where as Android relied on the "Open source" and free side for manufacturers to adapt to their phones, even if Google's services remained proprietary. Can we really talk about timing, when it's above all a problem of a product that didn't fit the market?
    - brandall10 3y ago
      Timing was definitely an issue - first Windows Phone came 3 years after iOS and 2 after Android. AFA the product itself, I think the perception it needed to overcome was more PocketPC/Windows Mobile having an incredibly substandard image in the market after the iOS release which seemed light years ahead, esp. since MS had that market to themselves for so many years. That said, it got great reviews and they threw $$ at devs to develop for it, just couldn't gain traction. IME it was timing more than anything and by the time it came to market felt more reactionary than truly innovative.

troupe 3y ago

> apple is the new Nokia. You obviously haven't dropped an iphone on to concrete. :)

xanderlewis 3y ago
When did you last try? I’m too embarrassed to say how often and onto what kind of surfaces my iPhone 12 has been dropped, but I’m amazed it’s still seemingly completely functional. My iPhone 4, on the other hand, shattered after one incident…
behnamoh 3y ago
I was more referring to Nokia's complacency which led to its demise. Nokia was infamous for incremental updates to their phone line, making users upgrade regularly. You could never find a "complete" Nokia phone; each phone was deliberately crippled some how. Apple does the same with their iDevices.
LASR 3y ago
Have you dropped the iPhone 14 Pro? Or 11 Pro? These are literally stainless steel. The 15s with their titanium is a step back. The 11 Pro with its older curved edges has been the most solidly built phone ever IMO.
kolinko 3y ago
Happens to me regularly, I think they reached a level of Nokia a few years back :) I even dropped my iPhone 13 four floors (onto wood), and not a scratch :o

bionhoward 3y ago

No, because OpenAI and Microsoft both have “CUSTOMER NONCOMPETE CLAUSES” in their terms of use. I didn’t check Apple, but Google doesn’t have any shady monopolistic stuff like that. Proof OpenAI has this shady monopolistic stuff: https://archive.ph/vVdIC https://archive.ph/vVdIC “What You Cannot Do. You may not use our Services for any illegal, harmful, or abusive activity. For example, you may not: […] Use Output to develop models that compete with OpenAI.” (Hilarious how that reads btw) Proof Microsoft has this shady monopolistic stuff: https://archive.ph/N5iVq https://archive.ph/N5iVq “AI Services. ”AI services” are services that are labeled or described by Microsoft as including, using, powered by, or being an Artificial Intelligence (“AI”) system. Limits on use of data from the AI Services. You may not use the AI services, or data from the AI services, to create, train, or improve (directly or indirectly) any other AI service.” That 100% does include GitHub Copilot, by the way. I canceled my sub. After I emailed Satya, they told me to post my “feedback” in a forum for issues about Xbox and Word (what a joke). I emailed the FTC Antitrust team. I filed a formal complaint with the office of the attorney general of the state of Washington. I am just one person. You should also raise a ruckus about this and contact the authorities, because it’s morally bankrupt and almost surely unlawful by virtue of extreme unfairness and unreasonableness, in addition to precedent. AWS, Anthropic, and NVIDIA also all have similar Customer Noncompete Clauses. I meekly suggest everyone immediately and completely boycott OpenAI, Microsoft, AWS, Anthropic, and NVIDIA, until they remove these customer noncompete clauses (which seem contrary to the Sherman Antitrust Act). Just imagine a world where AI can freely learn from us, but we are forbidden to learn from AI. Sounds like a boring dystopia, and we ought to make sure to avoid it.

dash2 3y ago
Why's it wrong to not let people use your output to build their own services? 1. I wouldn't let someone copy my code written directly by me. Why should I let someone copy the code my machine wrote? 2. There are obvious technical worries about feedback loops.
- nacs 3y ago
  > Why should I let someone copy the code my machine wrote Because that machine/openAI was built on literally scraping the internet (regardless of copyright or website's ToS) and ingesting printed books.

pwarner 3y ago

I have considered Oracle and MS to be competing for the title of new IBM. Maybe MS is shaking it off with their AI innovation, but I think a lot of that is just lipstick.