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> If you download something from a torrent, that's digital ownership too No, that’s possession. That’s why they call it piracy; you have it but you definitely

by c0pium 3y ago

> If you download something from a torrent, that's digital ownership too No, that’s possession. That’s why they call it piracy; you have it but you definitely don’t own it.

teeray 3y ago
Periodic reminder that torrents != piracy. Parent could have been referring to Linux ISOs or the contents of Wikipedia.
- c0pium 3y ago
  Sure sure, we can grant them their fig leaf. Note however that the same logic applies to their “Linux ISOs”. Possession does not imply ownership. Edit: there’s no need to give these reminders, btw. Everyone knows that torrents have theoretical uses beyond piracy. Just like everyone knows they’re almost entirely used for piracy.
ForkMeOnTinder 3y ago
> you have it but you definitely don’t own it. This could apply just as much to "buying" something from the Playstation store.
- COGlory 3y ago
  In that case, you neither have it OR own it.
baz00 3y ago
I haven't given a fuck if I own it or not for about 25 years.
doodpants 3y ago
Suppose I "buy" a piece of digital media, which let's agree for the sake of argument actually means "bought a license for". Suppose I also then torrent a copy of that same media for the purpose of backup and/or offline access. Is it still piracy? After all, I have a license for it.
- zerocrates 3y ago
  In practical terms for most people most of the time this is going to be a purely moral question; you're not going to face any consequences so it's just down to what you consider legitimate. Legally, "owning" an episode of a TV show on Playstation Network (to take the current example) doesn't give you any right to download a copy from elsewhere. Same for owning (this time in a more real sense) a copy on disc. Maybe you could make a fair use argument fly; I'm skeptical.
- c0pium 3y ago
  > Is it still piracy? Yes. > I have a license for it. The “it” for which you have a license is not the media you torrented. It’s the version you access from the licensor via the licensed mechanism. These kind of faux-legal arguments are extremely tiresome because they’re proposing gotcha hypotheticals which are clearly covered in the text of the license.
- hughesjj 3y ago
  > Is it still piracy? Legally you can make personal backups of media you purchase, subject to any licensing restrictions. That said technically it's still piracy if you're sending chunks to other peers since you don't have distribution rights. This is why copyright cases usually go after the seeders
  - c0pium 3y ago
    You should be careful with that advice, as virtually all media that you might want to backup contains drm, and there is no exemption to the DMCA for bypassing drm for personal or archival (unless you’re a museum) use. There are such exemptions for things like critique and education.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      >and there is no exemption to the DMCA for bypassing drm for personal or archival (unless you’re a museum) use Sure, there technically isn't. But in reality, there's no practical way to enforce this without breaking much bigger laws. So very few companies care about some single person breaking DRM, if they are made aware at all. The main exception would come from online games. But the "worst" retaliation you'd get is your account being banned. THey may not even bother sending a C&D despite companies technically being able to detect it unless you were cheating (which breaks the EULA, different from DMCA).

by c0pium 3y ago

> If you download something from a torrent, that's digital ownership too No, that’s possession. That’s why they call it piracy; you have it but you definitely don’t own it.

teeray 3y ago

Periodic reminder that torrents != piracy. Parent could have been referring to Linux ISOs or the contents of Wikipedia.

c0pium 3y ago
Sure sure, we can grant them their fig leaf. Note however that the same logic applies to their “Linux ISOs”. Possession does not imply ownership. Edit: there’s no need to give these reminders, btw. Everyone knows that torrents have theoretical uses beyond piracy. Just like everyone knows they’re almost entirely used for piracy.

ForkMeOnTinder 3y ago

> you have it but you definitely don’t own it. This could apply just as much to "buying" something from the Playstation store.

COGlory 3y ago
In that case, you neither have it OR own it.

baz00 3y ago

I haven't given a fuck if I own it or not for about 25 years.

doodpants 3y ago

Suppose I "buy" a piece of digital media, which let's agree for the sake of argument actually means "bought a license for". Suppose I also then torrent a copy of that same media for the purpose of backup and/or offline access. Is it still piracy? After all, I have a license for it.

zerocrates 3y ago
In practical terms for most people most of the time this is going to be a purely moral question; you're not going to face any consequences so it's just down to what you consider legitimate. Legally, "owning" an episode of a TV show on Playstation Network (to take the current example) doesn't give you any right to download a copy from elsewhere. Same for owning (this time in a more real sense) a copy on disc. Maybe you could make a fair use argument fly; I'm skeptical.
c0pium 3y ago
> Is it still piracy? Yes. > I have a license for it. The “it” for which you have a license is not the media you torrented. It’s the version you access from the licensor via the licensed mechanism. These kind of faux-legal arguments are extremely tiresome because they’re proposing gotcha hypotheticals which are clearly covered in the text of the license.
hughesjj 3y ago
> Is it still piracy? Legally you can make personal backups of media you purchase, subject to any licensing restrictions. That said technically it's still piracy if you're sending chunks to other peers since you don't have distribution rights. This is why copyright cases usually go after the seeders
- c0pium 3y ago
  You should be careful with that advice, as virtually all media that you might want to backup contains drm, and there is no exemption to the DMCA for bypassing drm for personal or archival (unless you’re a museum) use. There are such exemptions for things like critique and education.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    >and there is no exemption to the DMCA for bypassing drm for personal or archival (unless you’re a museum) use Sure, there technically isn't. But in reality, there's no practical way to enforce this without breaking much bigger laws. So very few companies care about some single person breaking DRM, if they are made aware at all. The main exception would come from online games. But the "worst" retaliation you'd get is your account being banned. THey may not even bother sending a C&D despite companies technically being able to detect it unless you were cheating (which breaks the EULA, different from DMCA).