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Are they though? How about the FDA getting most of its funding by the companies they are supposed to regulate? It's comforting to just trust that bureaucracies

Are they though? How about the FDA getting most of its funding by the companies they are supposed to regulate? It's comforting to just trust that bureaucracies are doing what's good for the country, but also naive. https://aspe.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/documents/e4a7910607c0dd76c40aa61151d154f9/FDA-User-Fee-Issue-Brief.pdf https://aspe.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/documents/e4a791060... How about the NSA spying on congress? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/04/nsa-spying-bernie-sanders-members-congress https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/04/nsa-spying-ber... How about the ATF making up laws? https://nclalegal.org/2019/09/atf-admits-it-lacked-authority-to-issue-legislative-rule-ncla-condemns-the-agencys-attempt-to-ban-bump-stocks-anyway/ https://nclalegal.org/2019/09/atf-admits-it-lacked-authority... The only teeth congress has with these bureaucracies is the power of the purse.

JohnFen 3y ago
> The only teeth congress has with these bureaucracies is the power of the purse. Not true. Congress can make laws defining what those agencies are and are not allowed to do.
- Clubber 3y ago
  And if the agencies go outside the bounds of those laws like some currently do?
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    Then those who are victimized take it to court. If the agency committed an actual crime, then there's a path for that to be prosecuted as well. It's certainly not a perfect system, but it's successfully done all the time.
    - Clubber 3y ago
      >> The only teeth congress has with these bureaucracies is the power of the purse. >Not true. Congress can make laws defining what those agencies are and are not allowed to do. >And if the agencies go outside the bounds of those laws like some currently do? >Then those who are victimized take it to court. Right, the court isn't congress. My point was the only teeth congress has in regards to the bureaucracies is the power of the purse. >successfully done all the time. It depends on how you define successfully. I mean they employ people, is that good enough? Do you think they would be more or less effective with a 20% haircut? I don't really know, but members congress probably don't either. Plus, it's bad politics to cut jobs come election time, right? Seems like a perverse incentive for the people charged overseeing the bureaucracies.
      - patmorgan23 3y ago
        Congress can impeach the appointed officers that allowed those violations to happen. Congress can create new criminal/civil remedies and then create an office tasked just with enforcing them.
frumper 3y ago
Congress created these agencies, they can write laws that fundamentally change how they work, what they do, and what they focus on. They can even just disband these agencies. Congress has all of the power it needs. If they don't use it, maybe what you think should happen doesn't align with the majority of Congress.
- calvinmorrison 3y ago
  You're assuming that the shadow government can't or won't institute regime change when it's threatened. The US Government killed a president, why wouldn't it blackmail congress as well?
  - frumper 3y ago
    With this belief, does anything really matter?
    - calvinmorrison 3y ago
      you're right.... The CIA and, by extension, the US government as a whole (or any subgroup thereof) have never altered the outcome of elections anywhere for regime change, and have never instigated color revolutions for regime change.
      - frumper 3y ago
        If your belief is correct in that the Congress and President are coerced into doing what the shadow government wants, then they would have zero need for a revolution or regime change in the United States.
        Clubber 3y ago
        The CIA and FBI definitely didn't like Trump. You see this same thing with police departments at the local level. They don't like what a mayor says (like de Blasio), they get the blue flu and cause crime to increase and the mayor takes the heat for the increase in crime. https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2020/07/17/fridays-headlines-blue-flu-edition https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2020/07/17/fridays-headlines-blu...

JohnFen 3y ago

> The only teeth congress has with these bureaucracies is the power of the purse. Not true. Congress can make laws defining what those agencies are and are not allowed to do.

Clubber 3y ago
And if the agencies go outside the bounds of those laws like some currently do?
- JohnFen 3y ago
  Then those who are victimized take it to court. If the agency committed an actual crime, then there's a path for that to be prosecuted as well. It's certainly not a perfect system, but it's successfully done all the time.
  - Clubber 3y ago
    >> The only teeth congress has with these bureaucracies is the power of the purse. >Not true. Congress can make laws defining what those agencies are and are not allowed to do. >And if the agencies go outside the bounds of those laws like some currently do? >Then those who are victimized take it to court. Right, the court isn't congress. My point was the only teeth congress has in regards to the bureaucracies is the power of the purse. >successfully done all the time. It depends on how you define successfully. I mean they employ people, is that good enough? Do you think they would be more or less effective with a 20% haircut? I don't really know, but members congress probably don't either. Plus, it's bad politics to cut jobs come election time, right? Seems like a perverse incentive for the people charged overseeing the bureaucracies.
    - patmorgan23 3y ago
      Congress can impeach the appointed officers that allowed those violations to happen. Congress can create new criminal/civil remedies and then create an office tasked just with enforcing them.

frumper 3y ago

Congress created these agencies, they can write laws that fundamentally change how they work, what they do, and what they focus on. They can even just disband these agencies. Congress has all of the power it needs. If they don't use it, maybe what you think should happen doesn't align with the majority of Congress.

calvinmorrison 3y ago
You're assuming that the shadow government can't or won't institute regime change when it's threatened. The US Government killed a president, why wouldn't it blackmail congress as well?
- frumper 3y ago
  With this belief, does anything really matter?
  - calvinmorrison 3y ago
    you're right.... The CIA and, by extension, the US government as a whole (or any subgroup thereof) have never altered the outcome of elections anywhere for regime change, and have never instigated color revolutions for regime change.
    - frumper 3y ago
      If your belief is correct in that the Congress and President are coerced into doing what the shadow government wants, then they would have zero need for a revolution or regime change in the United States.
      - Clubber 3y ago
        The CIA and FBI definitely didn't like Trump. You see this same thing with police departments at the local level. They don't like what a mayor says (like de Blasio), they get the blue flu and cause crime to increase and the mayor takes the heat for the increase in crime. https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2020/07/17/fridays-headlines-blue-flu-edition https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2020/07/17/fridays-headlines-blu...