4 ms·

I think you do not understand the basic fact that the people peeing in bottles are not working there against their will. As bad as it may be or sound, people ch

I think you do not understand the basic fact that the people peeing in bottles are not working there against their will. As bad as it may be or sound, people choose to voluntarily work there. But sure, go fight your fight with the megalomaniac...

archagon 3y ago
For the most part, nobody is working anywhere against their will. Does that mean unions are pointless?
- ExoticPearTree 3y ago
  Yes. I dislike the idea of unions with all my heart. I don't understand why a competent person needs to be a member of a union.
  - Kim_Bruning 3y ago
    It's a bargaining power thing. A group of individuals (like a company) has more bargaining power than an single individual. You can balance this out by eg. forming a second group of individuals who also collectively have more bargaining power (a union). Now don't try to tell me that bargaining power isn't a thing. With more bargaining power you can often get better deals! Note that Unions work very differently across different parts of the world. So your local union might be very different from ones that I've experienced.
    - ExoticPearTree 3y ago
      > Note that Unions work very differently across different parts of the world. So your local union might be very different from ones that I've experienced. You are right on this one. My experience with unions is that they want people to have a job even if that job is more efficiently done by a machine or to get salary increases even if the company is doing poorly because of outside market factors (like not enough sales due to poor economy and so on). And while the goal might be ideal, the reality is quite different.
eddtries 3y ago
People don't really choose to work, we work because we need to afford food and get health care and rent housing etc. If you live in a town where the job you can get is at Amazon then you don't really "voluntarily" work there, and considering it's pretty simple stuff that hires anyone this is probably the case.
- ExoticPearTree 3y ago
  You are always free to pack up your things and move to another place with better conditions. I would say it is worse for people in Chicago that work in the big slaughterhouses and even though they can pursue other opportunities, they still choose to work there. Using the "small town, no options" narrative doesn't really hold water.
  - eddtries 3y ago
    My point is if you're working a job it isn't as easy as "find another one". These things are tough personal emotional topics. No-one wants to work at a job where they have to pee in a bottle, yet people work there.
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    > You are always free to pack up your things and move to another place with better conditions. Using all your extensive savings from a job that in many parts of the US, pays up to 20% less than the livable wage?
  - bmicraft 3y ago
    > You are always free to pack up your things It's literally not "free" to move. If it were, many people would've done it a long time ago. Beside the financial cost, there are also very real social costs like losing friends and family - basically your whole support network, as well as putting all of that burden on a potential spouse and maybe kids too.
  - tptacek 3y ago
    There haven't been slaughterhouses in Chicago for over 50 years.
SigmundurM 3y ago
Capitalism is voluntary. Get bread, or get dead...
- AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
  [dead]

archagon 3y ago

For the most part, nobody is working anywhere against their will. Does that mean unions are pointless?

ExoticPearTree 3y ago
Yes. I dislike the idea of unions with all my heart. I don't understand why a competent person needs to be a member of a union.
- Kim_Bruning 3y ago
  It's a bargaining power thing. A group of individuals (like a company) has more bargaining power than an single individual. You can balance this out by eg. forming a second group of individuals who also collectively have more bargaining power (a union). Now don't try to tell me that bargaining power isn't a thing. With more bargaining power you can often get better deals! Note that Unions work very differently across different parts of the world. So your local union might be very different from ones that I've experienced.
  - ExoticPearTree 3y ago
    > Note that Unions work very differently across different parts of the world. So your local union might be very different from ones that I've experienced. You are right on this one. My experience with unions is that they want people to have a job even if that job is more efficiently done by a machine or to get salary increases even if the company is doing poorly because of outside market factors (like not enough sales due to poor economy and so on). And while the goal might be ideal, the reality is quite different.

eddtries 3y ago

People don't really choose to work, we work because we need to afford food and get health care and rent housing etc. If you live in a town where the job you can get is at Amazon then you don't really "voluntarily" work there, and considering it's pretty simple stuff that hires anyone this is probably the case.

ExoticPearTree 3y ago
You are always free to pack up your things and move to another place with better conditions. I would say it is worse for people in Chicago that work in the big slaughterhouses and even though they can pursue other opportunities, they still choose to work there. Using the "small town, no options" narrative doesn't really hold water.
- eddtries 3y ago
  My point is if you're working a job it isn't as easy as "find another one". These things are tough personal emotional topics. No-one wants to work at a job where they have to pee in a bottle, yet people work there.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  > You are always free to pack up your things and move to another place with better conditions. Using all your extensive savings from a job that in many parts of the US, pays up to 20% less than the livable wage?
- bmicraft 3y ago
  > You are always free to pack up your things It's literally not "free" to move. If it were, many people would've done it a long time ago. Beside the financial cost, there are also very real social costs like losing friends and family - basically your whole support network, as well as putting all of that burden on a potential spouse and maybe kids too.
- tptacek 3y ago
  There haven't been slaughterhouses in Chicago for over 50 years.

SigmundurM 3y ago

Capitalism is voluntary. Get bread, or get dead...

AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
[dead]