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Yeah, I've bought a lot of software that gave me a digital download with no DRM/bullshit. I've bought a comedy central special this way too, as well as dozens

Yeah, I've bought a lot of software that gave me a digital download with no DRM/bullshit. I've bought a comedy central special this way too, as well as dozens of albums and books. It's a perfectly agreeable arrangement, but some companies don't want to sell me a clean no-bullshit product and so I won't buy anything from them at all. The Rossman quote is very apt. If the "purchase" of a file won't give me ownership of the file, then pirating the file isn't theft.

Grieverheart 3y ago
I don’t completely agree with Rossman here. You are buying the streaming right and not the file. What I agree on though is that they don’t make that clear to their customers.
- izzydata 3y ago
  They use terminology such as "purchase" to intentionally lead you to believe that it is a purchase and not renting. Also when they do make it more obvious that it is a license they make you think it is a perpetual license rather than temporary.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    This is similar to buying a DVD. You don't buy the right to the video playing on your TV; only the right to play it on your TV from this exact physical disc. If the disc breaks, you have to buy it again.
    - danaris 3y ago
      This has, AFAIK, been ruled not to be the case. You have the right to back up DVDs you legally bought for precisely this reason.
      - robertlagrant 3y ago
        Well, that might depend on where you live. But point being that if your backups also break, you don't have the right to watch the thing any more.
        Kwpolska 3y ago
        It is possible for your disk and backups to break, or to be stolen, etc. But it’s just an unfortunate thing that can happen to anything you own. It’s different from the corporation taking away the rights of millions of people just because a licence ran out.
        robertlagrant 3y ago
        That is different. I was making the point that with physical media you don't have an unlimited right to watch forever either.
- voxic11 3y ago
  So am I fine if I stream it from a pirate site rather than downloading it?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ncallaway 3y ago
  > are buying the streaming right and not the file. What I agree on though is that they don’t make that clear to their customers. No. It’s not a matter of not being clear enough. If it’s not clear enough, maybe 10-20% of customers would be confused. I’d bet anything that if we did a survey 80+ percent of users would think that the platform wouldn’t be able to unilaterally revoke their content. It goes beyond “not clear” and straight into fraud and false advertising.
- BobaFloutist 3y ago
  Ok fine, I bought the streaming rights. Why do they get to take them away from me randomly and arbitrarily?
theturtletalks 3y ago
That's why physical media is slowly fading. Users are shifting to "buying" digitally and companies will axe physical media the first chance they get.
- sonicanatidae 3y ago
  Ironic and predictable that the more they shift to the model that's designed to screw the customers, more customers will pirate media.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
    > more customers will pirate media. This seems improbable. Copying media (I've never hijacked a ship at sea) is a skilled activity. Those not constantly practicing the skill, soon lose it. It's not as if you can just ask somewhere how to do it... never mind the bad advice you'd get ("Just go to this shithole website with 1900 popups, postage-stamp sized streaming, and malware!"), but places like Reddit and other social media shut down any such conversations in a hurry. They're onboard with the status quo. If someone who understood torrenting stopped 10 years ago, but feels compelled to start today, what can they do? Kickass is dead, Rarbg is dead. EZtv long gone. A half dozen others. Many of the private trackers are gone, but even those that aren't you'll find your accounts all deactivated. And, the latest generation is just completely clueless when it comes to technology in general. "How can I torrent this, I can only use my phone! Isn't there something that works with my smartphone!?!?!" They don't own the hardware, are unwilling to invest in having it but even more than the money hit of that they're just completely disinterested in it. The pro-copyright jackoffs might not have won yet, but victory's in sight and they're mostly patient (at least when they're not binging on cocaine).
    - sonicanatidae 3y ago
      Firstly, I generally agree. There is a barrier to piracy. Personally, I don't think it's a lot to overcome, when someone wants to. There are a number of torrent sites still active and when they go down, others will appear. That's how it's happened historically. Usenet is still alive and well. Pirate streaming sites are still out there. Torrentfreaks is a great source for sites, etc. There are a lot of ways for media to be pirated. Operating a vpn and torrent, while not part of most people's skillsets, the tech has advanced to the point where it's not difficult. There was a tech barrier, but advancements in tech, make VPN as easy as, install WindScribe. Register an account. Click a button. VPN connect active. (Note: I'm not advocating WS, they are a random VPN provider I used as an example)

Grieverheart 3y ago

I don’t completely agree with Rossman here. You are buying the streaming right and not the file. What I agree on though is that they don’t make that clear to their customers.

izzydata 3y ago
They use terminology such as "purchase" to intentionally lead you to believe that it is a purchase and not renting. Also when they do make it more obvious that it is a license they make you think it is a perpetual license rather than temporary.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  This is similar to buying a DVD. You don't buy the right to the video playing on your TV; only the right to play it on your TV from this exact physical disc. If the disc breaks, you have to buy it again.
  - danaris 3y ago
    This has, AFAIK, been ruled not to be the case. You have the right to back up DVDs you legally bought for precisely this reason.
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      Well, that might depend on where you live. But point being that if your backups also break, you don't have the right to watch the thing any more.
      - Kwpolska 3y ago
        It is possible for your disk and backups to break, or to be stolen, etc. But it’s just an unfortunate thing that can happen to anything you own. It’s different from the corporation taking away the rights of millions of people just because a licence ran out.
        robertlagrant 3y ago
        That is different. I was making the point that with physical media you don't have an unlimited right to watch forever either.
voxic11 3y ago
So am I fine if I stream it from a pirate site rather than downloading it?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ncallaway 3y ago
> are buying the streaming right and not the file. What I agree on though is that they don’t make that clear to their customers. No. It’s not a matter of not being clear enough. If it’s not clear enough, maybe 10-20% of customers would be confused. I’d bet anything that if we did a survey 80+ percent of users would think that the platform wouldn’t be able to unilaterally revoke their content. It goes beyond “not clear” and straight into fraud and false advertising.
BobaFloutist 3y ago
Ok fine, I bought the streaming rights. Why do they get to take them away from me randomly and arbitrarily?

theturtletalks 3y ago

That's why physical media is slowly fading. Users are shifting to "buying" digitally and companies will axe physical media the first chance they get.

sonicanatidae 3y ago
Ironic and predictable that the more they shift to the model that's designed to screw the customers, more customers will pirate media.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
  > more customers will pirate media. This seems improbable. Copying media (I've never hijacked a ship at sea) is a skilled activity. Those not constantly practicing the skill, soon lose it. It's not as if you can just ask somewhere how to do it... never mind the bad advice you'd get ("Just go to this shithole website with 1900 popups, postage-stamp sized streaming, and malware!"), but places like Reddit and other social media shut down any such conversations in a hurry. They're onboard with the status quo. If someone who understood torrenting stopped 10 years ago, but feels compelled to start today, what can they do? Kickass is dead, Rarbg is dead. EZtv long gone. A half dozen others. Many of the private trackers are gone, but even those that aren't you'll find your accounts all deactivated. And, the latest generation is just completely clueless when it comes to technology in general. "How can I torrent this, I can only use my phone! Isn't there something that works with my smartphone!?!?!" They don't own the hardware, are unwilling to invest in having it but even more than the money hit of that they're just completely disinterested in it. The pro-copyright jackoffs might not have won yet, but victory's in sight and they're mostly patient (at least when they're not binging on cocaine).
  - sonicanatidae 3y ago
    Firstly, I generally agree. There is a barrier to piracy. Personally, I don't think it's a lot to overcome, when someone wants to. There are a number of torrent sites still active and when they go down, others will appear. That's how it's happened historically. Usenet is still alive and well. Pirate streaming sites are still out there. Torrentfreaks is a great source for sites, etc. There are a lot of ways for media to be pirated. Operating a vpn and torrent, while not part of most people's skillsets, the tech has advanced to the point where it's not difficult. There was a tech barrier, but advancements in tech, make VPN as easy as, install WindScribe. Register an account. Click a button. VPN connect active. (Note: I'm not advocating WS, they are a random VPN provider I used as an example)