4 ms·

Agreed, and if Norway, Sweden, and Denmark, are for the people, let the people decide whether want to buy a Tesla and support Elon. Cutting off shipping to thei

by eggy 3y ago

Agreed, and if Norway, Sweden, and Denmark, are for the people, let the people decide whether want to buy a Tesla and support Elon. Cutting off shipping to their rightful owners sounds like you are curtailing your own citizens from living as they please. Would be interesting if they and other countries unions had stopped the shipments of iPhones to their citizen consumers due to the working conditions and no unions allowed at the time in China. I am sure a lot of sanctimonious iPhone users would be caught in a conundrum.

The_Colonel 3y ago
As I understand, this is not a top-down decision by the government, but unions and their workers.
fxtentacle 3y ago
You can still drive from Sweden to Germany and buy a Tesla there, if you care enough about it. BTW, you will always reach the point where you need to "curtail[..] your own citizens from living as they please" or else you'll end up with kids blowing up your stuff just for the fun of it.
- eggy 3y ago
  I am not equating citizen adults with children, and I do not believe in trying to legislate intelligence. More in the classic libertarian sense that if what I enjoy is not directly harming you or taking away your rights, keep to your own business. Here it is a Scandinavian choosing to buy a Tesla with no concern or argument concerning labor unions. BTW, the UAW sucks.
mint2 3y ago
They aren’t protesting working Tesla conditions outside their countries. They’re protesting how Tesla treats the workers/unions inside Sweden.
ljm 3y ago
The capitalist idea of voting with your wallet doesn't really work that way, it's throwing away the power of collective bargaining and instead leaving every man for himself, which would be an instant race to the bottom. The workers are unionised because if they weren't, Tesla would be leading the charge on torching whatever rights workers had previously agreed to. More countries could stand to do this, to show that it is the people who have power over corporations, not the other way around.
Kim_Bruning 3y ago
Presumably many of those citizens are union members (potentially more than one at the same time), so at worst they'd be ambivalent.
rchaud 3y ago
What a bizarre parallel to the iPhone. No one is buying a $50,000+ car because they want to 'support Elon', who is Top 5 among the world's richest people. If the freight workers unloading shipping containers containing iPhones choose to strike, it will be due to changes in working conditions that affect them, not what conditions are like in a foreign factory.
- eggy 3y ago
  My parallel to the iPhone was a reference to the horrendous conditions at Foxconn from 2006 to 2010, and the West's insatiable need for iPhones didn't draw any much support until it blew up in the media, and Apple looked evil. I think the formation of a union in Shenzen, China mirrors early unions in first-world countries, however, my belief is that unions in first-world nations are now more like extortionists and are not as needed and do not truly represent their members. Tesla is a big seller in Norway, then Sweden, followed third by Denmark in Scandinavia. The governments push them legislatively and via financial subsidies. I am not fully informed of the metal worker's gripes in Sweden, nor the labor structures in Scandinavia, but the mob of Norway dock workers and others in Denmark unions all joining in, because Elon doesn't agree with unions or forming them, seems more a first-world problem (like people not potentially getting their iPhones), but with the iPhone nobody boycotted Apple from 2006 to 2010, and then in 2012, writers, not unions, started to raise consumer consciousness on the issue with suggestions of boycotts on Apple. I hope Elon tells Scandinavia to F-off like he just did to X advertisers. Sweden is one of the world's most unionized nations, but it is a fairly homongenous society. The percentages are going down as they accept more immigrants into their society. In addition, Scandinavia has bought the EV craze hook, line, and sinker, even though EVs are turning out not to be the cure for all the ills of the world as many thought they once were. They are heavily invested in many ways. I am curious to see how this plays out. [Edit] I don't think the consumers are personally buying Teslas to financially support Elon personally, but by choosing to buy a Tesla they are voting with their wallets, and I think pro- and anti-union are two valid stances. Neither is the product of being brainwashed as some have commented here.
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
> let the people decide whether want to buy a Tesla and support Elon. Okay, let's let the people decide whether they want to buy heroin and support violent cartels. Let's take the same approach to slavery. Or fire safety of buildings. In fact, can you name 1 occasion in history when a consumer boycott stopped any kind of bad corporate behaviour - it does not even stop child slavery.
- eggy 3y ago
  Wow, from an anti- to pro-union discussion and allowing people to purchase products that are currently and legally on the market for purchase in their country, and let a mob of workers come in between that contract, to heroin and violent cartels, slavery, and fire safety. Do you agree with the legal sale of alcohol then? Over 80% of violent crimes involve it. Prohibition didn't work, did it? Personally, I don't drink, but hey, you can drink yourself to death as long as you don't drive and hurt me or others - DUIs, violence, etc... The unions will fall in Scandinavia once the countries become less homogeneous as much as some fight it. They are already declining in number and you can't blame Elon. While your at it, according to your logic, they should put curfews on citizens going out at the hours surrounding noon and midnight to prevent crime, since so much of it takes place at that time. You don't want to support violent crime do you? While your at it, ban alcohol and end government taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, because bad, and people are infants to be raised by Big Brother.
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    > let a mob of workers come in between that contract Without the 'mob of workers' you would enjoy the same working conditions as currently they have in factories in China, for children. We literally used to send children to die in the coalmines untill the 'mob of workers' stopped it.

by eggy 3y ago

The_Colonel 3y ago

As I understand, this is not a top-down decision by the government, but unions and their workers.

fxtentacle 3y ago

You can still drive from Sweden to Germany and buy a Tesla there, if you care enough about it. BTW, you will always reach the point where you need to "curtail[..] your own citizens from living as they please" or else you'll end up with kids blowing up your stuff just for the fun of it.

eggy 3y ago
I am not equating citizen adults with children, and I do not believe in trying to legislate intelligence. More in the classic libertarian sense that if what I enjoy is not directly harming you or taking away your rights, keep to your own business. Here it is a Scandinavian choosing to buy a Tesla with no concern or argument concerning labor unions. BTW, the UAW sucks.

mint2 3y ago

They aren’t protesting working Tesla conditions outside their countries. They’re protesting how Tesla treats the workers/unions inside Sweden.

ljm 3y ago

The capitalist idea of voting with your wallet doesn't really work that way, it's throwing away the power of collective bargaining and instead leaving every man for himself, which would be an instant race to the bottom. The workers are unionised because if they weren't, Tesla would be leading the charge on torching whatever rights workers had previously agreed to. More countries could stand to do this, to show that it is the people who have power over corporations, not the other way around.

Kim_Bruning 3y ago

Presumably many of those citizens are union members (potentially more than one at the same time), so at worst they'd be ambivalent.

rchaud 3y ago

What a bizarre parallel to the iPhone. No one is buying a $50,000+ car because they want to 'support Elon', who is Top 5 among the world's richest people. If the freight workers unloading shipping containers containing iPhones choose to strike, it will be due to changes in working conditions that affect them, not what conditions are like in a foreign factory.

eggy 3y ago
My parallel to the iPhone was a reference to the horrendous conditions at Foxconn from 2006 to 2010, and the West's insatiable need for iPhones didn't draw any much support until it blew up in the media, and Apple looked evil. I think the formation of a union in Shenzen, China mirrors early unions in first-world countries, however, my belief is that unions in first-world nations are now more like extortionists and are not as needed and do not truly represent their members. Tesla is a big seller in Norway, then Sweden, followed third by Denmark in Scandinavia. The governments push them legislatively and via financial subsidies. I am not fully informed of the metal worker's gripes in Sweden, nor the labor structures in Scandinavia, but the mob of Norway dock workers and others in Denmark unions all joining in, because Elon doesn't agree with unions or forming them, seems more a first-world problem (like people not potentially getting their iPhones), but with the iPhone nobody boycotted Apple from 2006 to 2010, and then in 2012, writers, not unions, started to raise consumer consciousness on the issue with suggestions of boycotts on Apple. I hope Elon tells Scandinavia to F-off like he just did to X advertisers. Sweden is one of the world's most unionized nations, but it is a fairly homongenous society. The percentages are going down as they accept more immigrants into their society. In addition, Scandinavia has bought the EV craze hook, line, and sinker, even though EVs are turning out not to be the cure for all the ills of the world as many thought they once were. They are heavily invested in many ways. I am curious to see how this plays out. [Edit] I don't think the consumers are personally buying Teslas to financially support Elon personally, but by choosing to buy a Tesla they are voting with their wallets, and I think pro- and anti-union are two valid stances. Neither is the product of being brainwashed as some have commented here.

ClumsyPilot 3y ago

> let the people decide whether want to buy a Tesla and support Elon. Okay, let's let the people decide whether they want to buy heroin and support violent cartels. Let's take the same approach to slavery. Or fire safety of buildings. In fact, can you name 1 occasion in history when a consumer boycott stopped any kind of bad corporate behaviour - it does not even stop child slavery.

eggy 3y ago
Wow, from an anti- to pro-union discussion and allowing people to purchase products that are currently and legally on the market for purchase in their country, and let a mob of workers come in between that contract, to heroin and violent cartels, slavery, and fire safety. Do you agree with the legal sale of alcohol then? Over 80% of violent crimes involve it. Prohibition didn't work, did it? Personally, I don't drink, but hey, you can drink yourself to death as long as you don't drive and hurt me or others - DUIs, violence, etc... The unions will fall in Scandinavia once the countries become less homogeneous as much as some fight it. They are already declining in number and you can't blame Elon. While your at it, according to your logic, they should put curfews on citizens going out at the hours surrounding noon and midnight to prevent crime, since so much of it takes place at that time. You don't want to support violent crime do you? While your at it, ban alcohol and end government taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, because bad, and people are infants to be raised by Big Brother.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  > let a mob of workers come in between that contract Without the 'mob of workers' you would enjoy the same working conditions as currently they have in factories in China, for children. We literally used to send children to die in the coalmines untill the 'mob of workers' stopped it.