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That doesn't sound like a strike at all. They presumably are still working and getting paid their wages Legally that seems a bit crazy that shipping company wo

That doesn't sound like a strike at all. They presumably are still working and getting paid their wages Legally that seems a bit crazy that shipping company workers can select what gets shipped based on their political beliefs. Next the power utility company workers are going to refuse to give Tesla electricity

ramesh31 3y ago
Yeah we've been trained well in the US. Only our corporate overlords should have that kind of power.
- contrarian1234 3y ago
  Never heard of a shipping company refusing to ship based on political belief
  - kristofferR 3y ago
    That's nothing, whole genders have striked before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Icelandic_women%27s_strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Icelandic_women%27s_strik...
    - contrarian1234 3y ago
      A bit apples to oranges. That's an actual strike. They don't go in to work and they don't get paid. They didn't selectively continue working but only for X that they decided are they good guys
      - nylon_remedy 3y ago
        A strike is only one part of industrial actions which unions can take, other include overtime bans and, in this case, a blockade. The purpose is to force Tesla to the negotiating table and get a collective bargaining agreement, which covers most of the Swedish labour market.
      - avgcorrection 3y ago
        I don’t understand why anyone should care about whatever an “actual strike” is. Maybe some labor organization strikes against working with some hazardous product like asbestos. So they refuse to work with it. But they continue to work with other materials. Because they’re not striking against all the other products that they work with...
    - shzhdbi09gv8ioi 3y ago
      In Sweden in 1979, a number of people called in sick for "being gay", to protest that homosexuality was still classified as a disease. After that, an activist occupation of the National Board of Health and Welfare's headquarters began. Within a few months, Sweden became one of the first countries in the world to declassify homosexuality as a disease. Elmo need to start paying attention.
      - AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
        [dead]
  - simion314 3y ago
    >Never heard of a shipping company refusing to ship based on political belief The strike is about working contracts not about Elon dumb stuff, and before someone defends Elon I will inform you that Elon himself admitted he said some very dumb stuff.
  - stiray 3y ago
    It is not shipping company. It is shipping company workers not wanting to touch Tesla stuff.
  - ZeroGravitas 3y ago
    Just pretend that the workers have a patent on this (and/or that patents are a "political belief") and you'll think of lots of examples of organisations using leverage over other organisations to achieve some goal, sometimes to the public good and sometimes against it.
  - flutas 3y ago
    > Never heard of a shipping company refusing to ship based on political belief I actually know a postal worker in the US who got fired ("resign or else type") for refusing to deliver political mail that he didn't agree with, so yeah in the US try this and get fired.
  - mopsi 3y ago
    > Never heard of a shipping company refusing to ship based on political belief But there are plenty of examples of companies threatening to leave, or leaving a state due to unfavorable politics. Companies choose all the time where and with whom they do business.
kristofferR 3y ago
You are effectively saying: "It is crazy that they have an effective mechanism for ensuring good working conditions in their societies"
- contrarian1234 3y ago
  That's a very narrow view of the situation. It's not up for a small group of individuals to decide that for the whole society. Say they decide tmrw to not accept shipments from Israel. Why should a dock worker have disproportionate say in that?
  - kristofferR 3y ago
    It's not up to an individual, it's up to the unions, that's the whole point of them. This isn't just some random dockworkers, this is Fellesforbundet, Norway's largest private union. Unions are usually democratic, with elected leaders. The Israel example is absurdly weak, that has nothing to do with working conditions. Solidarity strikes/actions aren't a new thing, they are well established things that have forced many other multinational companies to treat their Scandinavian workers better. Most of those companies, like McDonald's, eventually concede and start operating profitable ventures with good working conditions here.
  - ZeroGravitas 3y ago
    For a real life example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nae_Pasaran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nae_Pasaran > Nae Pasaran is a 2018 documentary directed by Felipe Bustos Sierra about a group of workers at a Rolls-Royce factory in East Kilbride, Scotland, who refused to work on Chilean Air Force parts from 1974-78 due to the atrocities carried out in Chile by the Pinochet dictatorship
  - jplrssn 3y ago
    I'm not familiar with Norwegian labour law, but if it's anything like the Swedish equivalent there are narrowly defined rules about when you can and can't engage in solidarity action. It's only permissible in response to an active dispute and refusing to unload all shipments from Israel definitely wouldn't qualify.
Hikikomori 3y ago
Has nothing to do with politics. We've had this system for almost 100 years, Tesla is not the first company that refused to work within the established system, see Toys R Us in Sweden and McDonalds in Denmark.
simion314 3y ago
>It sets a scary precedent. They in effect hold disproportionate power and can affect whole sectors of the economy to force whatever they want done Sweden seems to have low regulation, no minimum wages so is a perfect place for an american company to take advantage, unless the peasants use their rights to strike then the billionaires are demanding regulations. As software developers we should do the same when we are asked to take part on building harfull shit, as an individual we have no power, if I refuse someone else will be paid to do it but as a union we could do some good and reduce the harm int he world. Tesla is free to use other companies or methods to deliver, create their own delivery companies from scratch , deliver the cars with their rockets. I do not think they can cut off the power but there could be problems finding people fixing their electrical issues if they appear.
- eddtries 3y ago
  > Tesla is free to use other companies or methods to deliver, create their own delivery companies from scratch , deliver the cars with their rockets. I do not think they can cut off the power but there could be problems finding people fixing their electrical issues if they appear. In theory, but it's not unprecedented for payment providers to refuse to process payments so they'd not be able to pay people to even get started (if they went that way)
- lelanthran 3y ago
  > As software developers we should do the same when we are asked to take part on building harfull shit, as an individual we have no power, if I refuse someone else will be paid to do it but as a union we could do some good Who gets to decide what is harmful and what is not? Me? You? Your proposal won't go anywhere because you won't agree with others on what is harmful and what is not.
  - simion314 3y ago
    >Your proposal won't go anywhere because you won't agree with others on what is harmful and what is not. Maybe in some groups we can achieve a consensus. Say 80% of developers at a company think that the new feature of addicting kids on some game mechanic is harmful? I am not referring to the stupid culture war in USA, so when I suggest this I am not attacking your political opinions.
avgcorrection 3y ago
> Legally that seems a bit crazy that shipping company workers can select what gets shipped based on their political beliefs. Brother/Sister, a strike can in principle be done for any reason.
- edgyquant 3y ago
  Sure but a strike implies not working at all
  - avgcorrection 3y ago
    You’re telling me this thread spent dozens of comments over semantics (”implies”)? Jeez. Just use a goddamn different word if you prefer.
  - citizenkeen 3y ago
    No. Most unions will support employees not crossing picket lines. Good luck getting Teamsters, who are working and collecting paychecks, to drive a truck past strikers.
  - grotorea 3y ago
    There's some other things that are called strikes like when the workers follow regulations strictly in a way that makes normal operations impossible.
- fallingknife 3y ago
  Which has the problem of striking for the reason that company X paid the transport union to not deliver products for competitor company Y, so that's why usually laws limit that principle.
  - avgcorrection 3y ago
    I would have thought that such “corrupt unions” snipes would be off-topic here but you do you.
smcl 3y ago
You're talking like they're acting out based on some unrelated or irrelevant thing - as if they're taking a stand against Elon Musk's stance on trans people or his rather unique ideas about what "free speech" is. The unions are acting against Tesla out of their own self-interest - Tesla do not want to collectively bargain with a union. This is not something these unions are OK with and allowing it to continue unopposed could set a precedent that threatens their members and the conditions they've fought for. In a sense these unions do have a lot of power when all of their interests align. But because of the sheer number of people and diversity of their industries and the political capital they expend in performing these actions, they don't tend to act at this scale very often. You need to have fucked up pretty badly to have mobilised all of these people against you.
- hinkley 3y ago
  What is the point of a union without collective bargaining is what I want to know. It sounds like what anti union people like to portray them as. A tax on employees and nepotism.
  - piva00 3y ago
    I'm part of a union in Sweden and my employer does not have a CBA, I get from my union: income insurance (up to 12 months covering 90% of my current salary), access to free consultation with lawyers, discounts on a few services (even driving schools), and a few other benefits. It's not a tax on employees, I consider it a quite cheap insurance.
    - eddtries 3y ago
      Yep. The main reason I joined a union was for unemployment insurance. If I lose a job I get 80% of my salary for 6 months. I also get discounted home/personal insurance and better mortgage rates. Once you include standard employer perks and you get a pretty decent quality of life without government intervention.
    - hinkley 3y ago
      Insurance makes sense. It's a different kind of collective action so my brain kind of routed around it. But it's not capital C, capital B Collective Bargaining, so I can see how you'd pretty easily get the one and have more trouble getting the other. You can shop around for insurance, you can't shop around for employers.

ramesh31 3y ago

Yeah we've been trained well in the US. Only our corporate overlords should have that kind of power.

contrarian1234 3y ago
Never heard of a shipping company refusing to ship based on political belief
- kristofferR 3y ago
  That's nothing, whole genders have striked before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Icelandic_women%27s_strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Icelandic_women%27s_strik...
  - contrarian1234 3y ago
    A bit apples to oranges. That's an actual strike. They don't go in to work and they don't get paid. They didn't selectively continue working but only for X that they decided are they good guys
    - nylon_remedy 3y ago
      A strike is only one part of industrial actions which unions can take, other include overtime bans and, in this case, a blockade. The purpose is to force Tesla to the negotiating table and get a collective bargaining agreement, which covers most of the Swedish labour market.
    - avgcorrection 3y ago
      I don’t understand why anyone should care about whatever an “actual strike” is. Maybe some labor organization strikes against working with some hazardous product like asbestos. So they refuse to work with it. But they continue to work with other materials. Because they’re not striking against all the other products that they work with...
  - shzhdbi09gv8ioi 3y ago
    In Sweden in 1979, a number of people called in sick for "being gay", to protest that homosexuality was still classified as a disease. After that, an activist occupation of the National Board of Health and Welfare's headquarters began. Within a few months, Sweden became one of the first countries in the world to declassify homosexuality as a disease. Elmo need to start paying attention.
    - AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
      [dead]
- simion314 3y ago
  >Never heard of a shipping company refusing to ship based on political belief The strike is about working contracts not about Elon dumb stuff, and before someone defends Elon I will inform you that Elon himself admitted he said some very dumb stuff.
- stiray 3y ago
  It is not shipping company. It is shipping company workers not wanting to touch Tesla stuff.
- ZeroGravitas 3y ago
  Just pretend that the workers have a patent on this (and/or that patents are a "political belief") and you'll think of lots of examples of organisations using leverage over other organisations to achieve some goal, sometimes to the public good and sometimes against it.
- flutas 3y ago
  > Never heard of a shipping company refusing to ship based on political belief I actually know a postal worker in the US who got fired ("resign or else type") for refusing to deliver political mail that he didn't agree with, so yeah in the US try this and get fired.
- mopsi 3y ago
  > Never heard of a shipping company refusing to ship based on political belief But there are plenty of examples of companies threatening to leave, or leaving a state due to unfavorable politics. Companies choose all the time where and with whom they do business.

kristofferR 3y ago

You are effectively saying: "It is crazy that they have an effective mechanism for ensuring good working conditions in their societies"

contrarian1234 3y ago
That's a very narrow view of the situation. It's not up for a small group of individuals to decide that for the whole society. Say they decide tmrw to not accept shipments from Israel. Why should a dock worker have disproportionate say in that?
- kristofferR 3y ago
  It's not up to an individual, it's up to the unions, that's the whole point of them. This isn't just some random dockworkers, this is Fellesforbundet, Norway's largest private union. Unions are usually democratic, with elected leaders. The Israel example is absurdly weak, that has nothing to do with working conditions. Solidarity strikes/actions aren't a new thing, they are well established things that have forced many other multinational companies to treat their Scandinavian workers better. Most of those companies, like McDonald's, eventually concede and start operating profitable ventures with good working conditions here.
- ZeroGravitas 3y ago
  For a real life example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nae_Pasaran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nae_Pasaran > Nae Pasaran is a 2018 documentary directed by Felipe Bustos Sierra about a group of workers at a Rolls-Royce factory in East Kilbride, Scotland, who refused to work on Chilean Air Force parts from 1974-78 due to the atrocities carried out in Chile by the Pinochet dictatorship
- jplrssn 3y ago
  I'm not familiar with Norwegian labour law, but if it's anything like the Swedish equivalent there are narrowly defined rules about when you can and can't engage in solidarity action. It's only permissible in response to an active dispute and refusing to unload all shipments from Israel definitely wouldn't qualify.

Hikikomori 3y ago

Has nothing to do with politics. We've had this system for almost 100 years, Tesla is not the first company that refused to work within the established system, see Toys R Us in Sweden and McDonalds in Denmark.

simion314 3y ago

>It sets a scary precedent. They in effect hold disproportionate power and can affect whole sectors of the economy to force whatever they want done Sweden seems to have low regulation, no minimum wages so is a perfect place for an american company to take advantage, unless the peasants use their rights to strike then the billionaires are demanding regulations. As software developers we should do the same when we are asked to take part on building harfull shit, as an individual we have no power, if I refuse someone else will be paid to do it but as a union we could do some good and reduce the harm int he world. Tesla is free to use other companies or methods to deliver, create their own delivery companies from scratch , deliver the cars with their rockets. I do not think they can cut off the power but there could be problems finding people fixing their electrical issues if they appear.

eddtries 3y ago
> Tesla is free to use other companies or methods to deliver, create their own delivery companies from scratch , deliver the cars with their rockets. I do not think they can cut off the power but there could be problems finding people fixing their electrical issues if they appear. In theory, but it's not unprecedented for payment providers to refuse to process payments so they'd not be able to pay people to even get started (if they went that way)
lelanthran 3y ago
> As software developers we should do the same when we are asked to take part on building harfull shit, as an individual we have no power, if I refuse someone else will be paid to do it but as a union we could do some good Who gets to decide what is harmful and what is not? Me? You? Your proposal won't go anywhere because you won't agree with others on what is harmful and what is not.
- simion314 3y ago
  >Your proposal won't go anywhere because you won't agree with others on what is harmful and what is not. Maybe in some groups we can achieve a consensus. Say 80% of developers at a company think that the new feature of addicting kids on some game mechanic is harmful? I am not referring to the stupid culture war in USA, so when I suggest this I am not attacking your political opinions.

avgcorrection 3y ago

> Legally that seems a bit crazy that shipping company workers can select what gets shipped based on their political beliefs. Brother/Sister, a strike can in principle be done for any reason.

edgyquant 3y ago
Sure but a strike implies not working at all
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  You’re telling me this thread spent dozens of comments over semantics (”implies”)? Jeez. Just use a goddamn different word if you prefer.
- citizenkeen 3y ago
  No. Most unions will support employees not crossing picket lines. Good luck getting Teamsters, who are working and collecting paychecks, to drive a truck past strikers.
- grotorea 3y ago
  There's some other things that are called strikes like when the workers follow regulations strictly in a way that makes normal operations impossible.
fallingknife 3y ago
Which has the problem of striking for the reason that company X paid the transport union to not deliver products for competitor company Y, so that's why usually laws limit that principle.
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  I would have thought that such “corrupt unions” snipes would be off-topic here but you do you.

smcl 3y ago

You're talking like they're acting out based on some unrelated or irrelevant thing - as if they're taking a stand against Elon Musk's stance on trans people or his rather unique ideas about what "free speech" is. The unions are acting against Tesla out of their own self-interest - Tesla do not want to collectively bargain with a union. This is not something these unions are OK with and allowing it to continue unopposed could set a precedent that threatens their members and the conditions they've fought for. In a sense these unions do have a lot of power when all of their interests align. But because of the sheer number of people and diversity of their industries and the political capital they expend in performing these actions, they don't tend to act at this scale very often. You need to have fucked up pretty badly to have mobilised all of these people against you.

hinkley 3y ago
What is the point of a union without collective bargaining is what I want to know. It sounds like what anti union people like to portray them as. A tax on employees and nepotism.
- piva00 3y ago
  I'm part of a union in Sweden and my employer does not have a CBA, I get from my union: income insurance (up to 12 months covering 90% of my current salary), access to free consultation with lawyers, discounts on a few services (even driving schools), and a few other benefits. It's not a tax on employees, I consider it a quite cheap insurance.
  - eddtries 3y ago
    Yep. The main reason I joined a union was for unemployment insurance. If I lose a job I get 80% of my salary for 6 months. I also get discounted home/personal insurance and better mortgage rates. Once you include standard employer perks and you get a pretty decent quality of life without government intervention.
  - hinkley 3y ago
    Insurance makes sense. It's a different kind of collective action so my brain kind of routed around it. But it's not capital C, capital B Collective Bargaining, so I can see how you'd pretty easily get the one and have more trouble getting the other. You can shop around for insurance, you can't shop around for employers.