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> So, if someone attends with their partner, are you suggesting they "just... not" show any affection towards them while they're there? No hugging, no hand-hold

> So, if someone attends with their partner, are you suggesting they "just... not" show any affection towards them while they're there? No hugging, no hand-holding, no pecks on the cheek? No resting a head on a shoulder? Yes, I expect that absolutely. We also expect that behavior from students in high school during class. There's a time and place for things, and attending a conference in a country where such things are considered illegal is neither. > That kind of assumes that the hosts rules are at least somewhat fair. If straight people can act naturally around their partners, but people with other sexual preferences have to police all their normal behaviours all the time, lest they are impolite enough to break the hosts rules, should those rules really be considered worthy of respect? I am terribly sorry and I get how you feel and yes, this is unfair, but those are the rules made by the country. If a software conference is the hill you want to die on for your values, I respect that, but please also respect that most people just don't care or are fine with respecting the rules, so the conference can take place with or without you. And no, there is no magic country that has no unfairness towards any group, there will always be groups that have it easier in some countries than in others, so in my opinion it's fair to conduct conferences in different countries. There will never be 100% fairness in the world.

Karellen 3y ago
> in my opinion it's fair to conduct conferences in different countries. First, let me say I agree with this, as with the rest of the points made in the Python Africa letter. It's spot on. > There's a time and place for things, and attending a conference in a country where such things are considered illegal is neither. My issue is, saying "can't you... just not?" (IMHO) massively trivialises how much of a sacrifice you're asking non-straight people to make. "can't you... just not?" seems to imply an incredulity why this would be any kind of imposition for non-straight people, and they should, like, get over it, man. It is a reality that LGBT+ people have to face, and make their own decisions about, but that doesn't mean it's fine to make it out like no big deal. > this is unfair, but those are the rules made by the country. I get that. And also, that anyone attending needs to respect the fact that publicly disobeying the rules can have serious consequences. Should the rules be obeyed? Probably. But are they worthy of respect? Fuck no. > most people just don't care or are fine with respecting the rules, I think you mean "most people not affected by the rules just don't care...". The same could be said for any civil rights struggle in the past. For a long time, most men didn't care or were just fine with respecting rules that discriminated against women, and most white people didn't care or were just fine with respecting rules that discriminated against people of color. When people who are not affected by such rules stand up against them, that really helps.
zlg_codes 3y ago
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Karellen 3y ago

> in my opinion it's fair to conduct conferences in different countries. First, let me say I agree with this, as with the rest of the points made in the Python Africa letter. It's spot on. > There's a time and place for things, and attending a conference in a country where such things are considered illegal is neither. My issue is, saying "can't you... just not?" (IMHO) massively trivialises how much of a sacrifice you're asking non-straight people to make. "can't you... just not?" seems to imply an incredulity why this would be any kind of imposition for non-straight people, and they should, like, get over it, man. It is a reality that LGBT+ people have to face, and make their own decisions about, but that doesn't mean it's fine to make it out like no big deal. > this is unfair, but those are the rules made by the country. I get that. And also, that anyone attending needs to respect the fact that publicly disobeying the rules can have serious consequences. Should the rules be obeyed? Probably. But are they worthy of respect? Fuck no. > most people just don't care or are fine with respecting the rules, I think you mean "most people not affected by the rules just don't care...". The same could be said for any civil rights struggle in the past. For a long time, most men didn't care or were just fine with respecting rules that discriminated against women, and most white people didn't care or were just fine with respecting rules that discriminated against people of color. When people who are not affected by such rules stand up against them, that really helps.

zlg_codes 3y ago

[flagged]