3 ms·

> Can't you just... not? So, if someone attends with their partner, are you suggesting they "just... not" show any affection towards them while they're there?

> Can't you just... not? So, if someone attends with their partner, are you suggesting they "just... not" show any affection towards them while they're there? No hugging, no hand-holding, no pecks on the cheek? No resting a head on a shoulder? "Stating your sexual preference" is more nuanced that standing at passport control and blurting out "I'm gay!". Not stating it can involve changing the whole way you behave around the person you're closest to in the world. ...where straight people do not have to make any such changes. > Where I am from, it is considered impolite not to respect the host's rules while attending as a guest. That kind of assumes that the hosts rules are at least somewhat fair. If straight people can act naturally around their partners, but people with other sexual preferences have to police all their normal behaviours all the time, lest they are impolite enough to break the hosts rules, should those rules really be considered worthy of respect?

asylteltine 3y ago
Yes, you must understand that there are countries that have different cultures and that’s just the reality irrespective of being right or wrong. If you don’t feel safe, don’t go. I don’t go to Arab countries at all and my life is just fine.
- wyldfire 3y ago
  > If you don’t feel safe, don’t go sure, but then shouldn't organizations like PSF take that into account when considering funding? by sponsoring the event they're endorsing it. so you could also see how it's not that great to endorse an event where you should warn attendees "hey don't gay it up bro they will beat you down here. just hide your shameful activity until you get back home."
  - leadingthenet 3y ago
    Everything does not need to get politicised. A programming conference is one such example.
    - bmicraft 3y ago
      Everything is political. Only people considered the "cultural default" mostly don't _have_ to think about it.
    - wyldfire 3y ago
      Replace sexuality or gender with age, race, or sex and replay the argument. "Don't be a woman or if you are a woman just mask that and subject yourself to men while in the country that discriminates against women. Please, women, don't make this a political thing. When in Rome..."
  - asylteltine 3y ago
    Should the PSF not fund minority groups or people because of lgbt? Obviously not that would be ridiculous. Why does lgbt need to be held over every single damn thing?
Longhanks 3y ago
> So, if someone attends with their partner, are you suggesting they "just... not" show any affection towards them while they're there? No hugging, no hand-holding, no pecks on the cheek? No resting a head on a shoulder? Yes, I expect that absolutely. We also expect that behavior from students in high school during class. There's a time and place for things, and attending a conference in a country where such things are considered illegal is neither. > That kind of assumes that the hosts rules are at least somewhat fair. If straight people can act naturally around their partners, but people with other sexual preferences have to police all their normal behaviours all the time, lest they are impolite enough to break the hosts rules, should those rules really be considered worthy of respect? I am terribly sorry and I get how you feel and yes, this is unfair, but those are the rules made by the country. If a software conference is the hill you want to die on for your values, I respect that, but please also respect that most people just don't care or are fine with respecting the rules, so the conference can take place with or without you. And no, there is no magic country that has no unfairness towards any group, there will always be groups that have it easier in some countries than in others, so in my opinion it's fair to conduct conferences in different countries. There will never be 100% fairness in the world.
- Karellen 3y ago
  > in my opinion it's fair to conduct conferences in different countries. First, let me say I agree with this, as with the rest of the points made in the Python Africa letter. It's spot on. > There's a time and place for things, and attending a conference in a country where such things are considered illegal is neither. My issue is, saying "can't you... just not?" (IMHO) massively trivialises how much of a sacrifice you're asking non-straight people to make. "can't you... just not?" seems to imply an incredulity why this would be any kind of imposition for non-straight people, and they should, like, get over it, man. It is a reality that LGBT+ people have to face, and make their own decisions about, but that doesn't mean it's fine to make it out like no big deal. > this is unfair, but those are the rules made by the country. I get that. And also, that anyone attending needs to respect the fact that publicly disobeying the rules can have serious consequences. Should the rules be obeyed? Probably. But are they worthy of respect? Fuck no. > most people just don't care or are fine with respecting the rules, I think you mean "most people not affected by the rules just don't care...". The same could be said for any civil rights struggle in the past. For a long time, most men didn't care or were just fine with respecting rules that discriminated against women, and most white people didn't care or were just fine with respecting rules that discriminated against people of color. When people who are not affected by such rules stand up against them, that really helps.
FireBeyond 3y ago
> If straight people can act naturally around their partners, but people with other sexual preferences have to police all their normal behaviours all the time, lest they are impolite enough to break the hosts rules I very much agree with the point of your post. I will also say that in many of those same countries, even as a straight person, you're not getting a hotel room with your partner without marriage, either.

asylteltine 3y ago

Yes, you must understand that there are countries that have different cultures and that’s just the reality irrespective of being right or wrong. If you don’t feel safe, don’t go. I don’t go to Arab countries at all and my life is just fine.

wyldfire 3y ago
> If you don’t feel safe, don’t go sure, but then shouldn't organizations like PSF take that into account when considering funding? by sponsoring the event they're endorsing it. so you could also see how it's not that great to endorse an event where you should warn attendees "hey don't gay it up bro they will beat you down here. just hide your shameful activity until you get back home."
- leadingthenet 3y ago
  Everything does not need to get politicised. A programming conference is one such example.
  - bmicraft 3y ago
    Everything is political. Only people considered the "cultural default" mostly don't _have_ to think about it.
  - wyldfire 3y ago
    Replace sexuality or gender with age, race, or sex and replay the argument. "Don't be a woman or if you are a woman just mask that and subject yourself to men while in the country that discriminates against women. Please, women, don't make this a political thing. When in Rome..."
- asylteltine 3y ago
  Should the PSF not fund minority groups or people because of lgbt? Obviously not that would be ridiculous. Why does lgbt need to be held over every single damn thing?

Longhanks 3y ago

> So, if someone attends with their partner, are you suggesting they "just... not" show any affection towards them while they're there? No hugging, no hand-holding, no pecks on the cheek? No resting a head on a shoulder? Yes, I expect that absolutely. We also expect that behavior from students in high school during class. There's a time and place for things, and attending a conference in a country where such things are considered illegal is neither. > That kind of assumes that the hosts rules are at least somewhat fair. If straight people can act naturally around their partners, but people with other sexual preferences have to police all their normal behaviours all the time, lest they are impolite enough to break the hosts rules, should those rules really be considered worthy of respect? I am terribly sorry and I get how you feel and yes, this is unfair, but those are the rules made by the country. If a software conference is the hill you want to die on for your values, I respect that, but please also respect that most people just don't care or are fine with respecting the rules, so the conference can take place with or without you. And no, there is no magic country that has no unfairness towards any group, there will always be groups that have it easier in some countries than in others, so in my opinion it's fair to conduct conferences in different countries. There will never be 100% fairness in the world.

Karellen 3y ago
> in my opinion it's fair to conduct conferences in different countries. First, let me say I agree with this, as with the rest of the points made in the Python Africa letter. It's spot on. > There's a time and place for things, and attending a conference in a country where such things are considered illegal is neither. My issue is, saying "can't you... just not?" (IMHO) massively trivialises how much of a sacrifice you're asking non-straight people to make. "can't you... just not?" seems to imply an incredulity why this would be any kind of imposition for non-straight people, and they should, like, get over it, man. It is a reality that LGBT+ people have to face, and make their own decisions about, but that doesn't mean it's fine to make it out like no big deal. > this is unfair, but those are the rules made by the country. I get that. And also, that anyone attending needs to respect the fact that publicly disobeying the rules can have serious consequences. Should the rules be obeyed? Probably. But are they worthy of respect? Fuck no. > most people just don't care or are fine with respecting the rules, I think you mean "most people not affected by the rules just don't care...". The same could be said for any civil rights struggle in the past. For a long time, most men didn't care or were just fine with respecting rules that discriminated against women, and most white people didn't care or were just fine with respecting rules that discriminated against people of color. When people who are not affected by such rules stand up against them, that really helps.

FireBeyond 3y ago

> If straight people can act naturally around their partners, but people with other sexual preferences have to police all their normal behaviours all the time, lest they are impolite enough to break the hosts rules I very much agree with the point of your post. I will also say that in many of those same countries, even as a straight person, you're not getting a hotel room with your partner without marriage, either.