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There's a HUGE difference between: "Our country taxes alcohol stupidly high, and nudity is 100% OK" And "Women are second class citizens and owned by their m

by pierat 3y ago

There's a HUGE difference between: "Our country taxes alcohol stupidly high, and nudity is 100% OK" And "Women are second class citizens and owned by their male counterparts. And we put gay people and trans people to death." As much as I hate saying it, it doesn't matter who the individuals in a country are, and how tolerant they are. The laws by the ruling power are what you have to follow. And fuck no going to a country based on Muslim Sharia. I know their book, and their brand of hate. Call it 'islamophobia', but I'd also be enslaved or executed if I stepped foot on their territories.

rbanffy 3y ago
Last time I checked, as an apostate, I'd have a death penalty waiting for me in many countries that operate under such religious laws. Also, if they know I am an apostate, and they ask me that at the border, I'll have to choose between death because I am an apostate, and death by a likely more painful method because I am an apostate and I also lied to a customs officer.
- pierat 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - hackinthebochs 3y ago
    You know how you change opinions in those places? By interacting with them. Exporting your culture, like conferences and such. Shunning does nothing to accomplish the goal of a more open society. Engagement moves the needle.
    - pierat 3y ago
      Its not my job to fix another peoples' terrible government or laws. And in most cases, the terrible laws/govt is representative of the peoples' views. (Note, the USA has done the type of foreign intervention that time and again, to terrible effect. Me? I'll just stay the fuck away from countries that want to execute me for being.) Tanzania is exactly that case, with a 2007 Pew survey finding that 95% +-4% that "believed that homosexuality is a way of life that society should not (be) accept(ed)". Let them fix their own problems first to a point that *being* isn't criminalized with lifetime prison or execution.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - hackinthebochs 3y ago
        Obviously you have no obligation to fix other people or countries. I wouldn't set foot in any of these countries either. The point is that western organizations shunning these countries is counter-productive. You seemed to disagree upthread that conferences organizers should support conferences in such regions despite their backwards laws. But this only harms the spread of modern ideals in these parts of the world. The only way they change is with more contact with the west, not less.
    - rbanffy 3y ago
      > By interacting with them. Exporting your culture, like conferences and such It's probably safer to start with TV shows first, or hosting conferences in safer places nearby, until the culture is changed. I would strongly discourage anyone at risk from visiting a country where their existence is a crime from visiting such country.

by pierat 3y ago

rbanffy 3y ago

Last time I checked, as an apostate, I'd have a death penalty waiting for me in many countries that operate under such religious laws. Also, if they know I am an apostate, and they ask me that at the border, I'll have to choose between death because I am an apostate, and death by a likely more painful method because I am an apostate and I also lied to a customs officer.

pierat 3y ago
[flagged]
- hackinthebochs 3y ago
  You know how you change opinions in those places? By interacting with them. Exporting your culture, like conferences and such. Shunning does nothing to accomplish the goal of a more open society. Engagement moves the needle.
  - pierat 3y ago
    Its not my job to fix another peoples' terrible government or laws. And in most cases, the terrible laws/govt is representative of the peoples' views. (Note, the USA has done the type of foreign intervention that time and again, to terrible effect. Me? I'll just stay the fuck away from countries that want to execute me for being.) Tanzania is exactly that case, with a 2007 Pew survey finding that 95% +-4% that "believed that homosexuality is a way of life that society should not (be) accept(ed)". Let them fix their own problems first to a point that *being* isn't criminalized with lifetime prison or execution.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - hackinthebochs 3y ago
      Obviously you have no obligation to fix other people or countries. I wouldn't set foot in any of these countries either. The point is that western organizations shunning these countries is counter-productive. You seemed to disagree upthread that conferences organizers should support conferences in such regions despite their backwards laws. But this only harms the spread of modern ideals in these parts of the world. The only way they change is with more contact with the west, not less.
  - rbanffy 3y ago
    > By interacting with them. Exporting your culture, like conferences and such It's probably safer to start with TV shows first, or hosting conferences in safer places nearby, until the culture is changed. I would strongly discourage anyone at risk from visiting a country where their existence is a crime from visiting such country.