6 ms·

The point is there is no standard that is applied evenly. If there was then the funding would have been quickly denied with a documented reason attached. Stalli

The point is there is no standard that is applied evenly. If there was then the funding would have been quickly denied with a documented reason attached. Stalling something which is going to get approved is just vindictiveness and collective punishment. Have you not heard what it's like for an Arab or Muslim going through Israeli airports? Sure, they'll be detained and deported at most, but that's enough to exclude the idea of visiting to give a conference talk.

_cenw 3y ago
They're still not the same thing. TSA and Israeli customs might suck, but at worst you get turned around. You manage to get past, let's say, Saudi customs as a trans person, get ready for jail time for the crime of existing. Not comparable.
- lozenge 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - dijit 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - _cenw 3y ago
      kind of missing the point, when it's not explicitly about citizens, the entire argument breaks apart especially if you consider west bank residents as potential speakers. > as inalienable or difficult to hide as [...] biological sex in case you extrapolated from my comment: i'm me, but other people are other people, and "the cis" can, in fact, not always tell. not even usually.
      - dijit 3y ago
        I guess you can always consider anyone excluded if you try. Iranian, North Korean and Cuban speakers, for example, would not be able to travel to America (or any US-allied country) as there are very explicit sanctions placed on those countries. Unless you're claiming Palestine is part of Israel and thus Palestinian citizens are Israeli ones, which would be a very controversial statement indeed.
        _cenw 3y ago
        It's just that you made a weird jump from "people attending Israel-hosted events" to "arab Israeli citizens" and I'm not sure how it happened. Though yes, as I said, I'd consider the difficulty there similar to going through TSA with an arabic name or wrong skin color.
    - lozenge 3y ago
      I was talking about international visitors actually. An LGBT resident of Zanzibar faces the same risks and oppressions whether they are at a Python conference or any other public place. So I don't see how that's relevant. What matters is (a) whether sponsoring would not further PSF's inclusivity goals because not all diverse types of people are welcome at the conference (b) whether the entire country morally deserves to be boycotted, like South Africa under apartheid. Israeli airport security is racist and that's a fact. Being able to hide your religion is not always possible. PSF put religion, sexual orientation, national origin, and ethnicity on an equal footing in their consideration of diversity. https://www.python.org/community/diversity/ https://www.python.org/community/diversity/ Yes, both Zanzibar and Israel are doing bad things and certain groups are affected. But these arguments only seem to come out when "people like us" are affected (LGBT, not Muslims) and when "people unlike us" are affecting (Africans, not Israelis. Not Floridians. Not...).

_cenw 3y ago

They're still not the same thing. TSA and Israeli customs might suck, but at worst you get turned around. You manage to get past, let's say, Saudi customs as a trans person, get ready for jail time for the crime of existing. Not comparable.

lozenge 3y ago
[flagged]
- dijit 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - _cenw 3y ago
    kind of missing the point, when it's not explicitly about citizens, the entire argument breaks apart especially if you consider west bank residents as potential speakers. > as inalienable or difficult to hide as [...] biological sex in case you extrapolated from my comment: i'm me, but other people are other people, and "the cis" can, in fact, not always tell. not even usually.
    - dijit 3y ago
      I guess you can always consider anyone excluded if you try. Iranian, North Korean and Cuban speakers, for example, would not be able to travel to America (or any US-allied country) as there are very explicit sanctions placed on those countries. Unless you're claiming Palestine is part of Israel and thus Palestinian citizens are Israeli ones, which would be a very controversial statement indeed.
      - _cenw 3y ago
        It's just that you made a weird jump from "people attending Israel-hosted events" to "arab Israeli citizens" and I'm not sure how it happened. Though yes, as I said, I'd consider the difficulty there similar to going through TSA with an arabic name or wrong skin color.
  - lozenge 3y ago
    I was talking about international visitors actually. An LGBT resident of Zanzibar faces the same risks and oppressions whether they are at a Python conference or any other public place. So I don't see how that's relevant. What matters is (a) whether sponsoring would not further PSF's inclusivity goals because not all diverse types of people are welcome at the conference (b) whether the entire country morally deserves to be boycotted, like South Africa under apartheid. Israeli airport security is racist and that's a fact. Being able to hide your religion is not always possible. PSF put religion, sexual orientation, national origin, and ethnicity on an equal footing in their consideration of diversity. https://www.python.org/community/diversity/ https://www.python.org/community/diversity/ Yes, both Zanzibar and Israel are doing bad things and certain groups are affected. But these arguments only seem to come out when "people like us" are affected (LGBT, not Muslims) and when "people unlike us" are affecting (Africans, not Israelis. Not Floridians. Not...).