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Russia has free healthcare and university and has invested in research prior to the war and had a burgeoning tech industry (e.g., yandex). The problem in Russia

Russia has free healthcare and university and has invested in research prior to the war and had a burgeoning tech industry (e.g., yandex). The problem in Russia is not Russia it is Putin. And how do you convert a country that has never had freedom and democracy to a free and democratic place?

rsynnott 3y ago
> And how do you convert a country that has never had freedom and democracy to a free and democratic place? The ex-Soviet Baltic EU states are largely doing okay. Ukraine's making surprisingly rapid progress on its EU accession checklist. Elsewhere, other good models would be Spain, Portugal, Taiwan (none really had any serious history of democracy before the late 20th century). It is absolutely possible for a country which has basically always been totalitarian to become a functioning democracy, though it tends to go faster with outside help. The EU accession model (essentially "we'll give you stuff if you reduce the corruption to a dull roar") seems to be pretty effective, though it's not foolproof (in particular, there's not _that_ much stopping a member state turning around and going "haha, only joking" once it's in; see Hungary).
- Reason077 3y ago
  > "Ukraine's making surprisingly rapid progress on its EU accession checklist." I think people have forgetten just how corrupt Ukraine is. It has regularly been ranked the most corrupt nation in Europe (yes, worse than Russia and Hungary!). Perhaps the war has suppressed it somewhat due to increased patriotism, increased scrutiny, etc, but corruption is so ingrained the culture that it's very difficult to imagine it disappearing just because they want to join the EU.
- shiroiuma 3y ago
  >in particular, there's not _that_ much stopping a member state turning around and going "haha, only joking" once it's in; see Hungary The EU really needs a strong mechanism to kick member states out when this happens.

rsynnott 3y ago

> And how do you convert a country that has never had freedom and democracy to a free and democratic place? The ex-Soviet Baltic EU states are largely doing okay. Ukraine's making surprisingly rapid progress on its EU accession checklist. Elsewhere, other good models would be Spain, Portugal, Taiwan (none really had any serious history of democracy before the late 20th century). It is absolutely possible for a country which has basically always been totalitarian to become a functioning democracy, though it tends to go faster with outside help. The EU accession model (essentially "we'll give you stuff if you reduce the corruption to a dull roar") seems to be pretty effective, though it's not foolproof (in particular, there's not _that_ much stopping a member state turning around and going "haha, only joking" once it's in; see Hungary).

Reason077 3y ago
> "Ukraine's making surprisingly rapid progress on its EU accession checklist." I think people have forgetten just how corrupt Ukraine is. It has regularly been ranked the most corrupt nation in Europe (yes, worse than Russia and Hungary!). Perhaps the war has suppressed it somewhat due to increased patriotism, increased scrutiny, etc, but corruption is so ingrained the culture that it's very difficult to imagine it disappearing just because they want to join the EU.
shiroiuma 3y ago
>in particular, there's not _that_ much stopping a member state turning around and going "haha, only joking" once it's in; see Hungary The EU really needs a strong mechanism to kick member states out when this happens.