7 ms·

It's a grant, not an entitlement.

gwd 3y ago
Then say "no" quickly so that they can look for other funding. [EDIT] And be honest about the fact that Africans (or more charitably, countries that have particular laws or a particular pattern of enforcement) Need Not Apply.
- bruce343434 3y ago
  >And be honest about the fact that Africans Need Not Apply I have the hunch that that is what it came down to, a matter of public perception. Shunt africa, or shunt lgbt? Both "important minority identities" in the current zeitgeist of the western world. Probably no one wanted to touch that decision with a 10 ft pole.
  - jsmeaton 3y ago
    The open letter states it was a single individual that was able to stonewall the process. It wasn’t about the PSF group as a whole that didn’t want to touch the decision. One person. I think the letter has a fairly good point that processes are broken if this is possible.
    - ttyprintk 3y ago
      I have to guess that, based on the meeting minutes posted nearby, the one vote needed to reach 5/10 vote is what this is referring to. The minutes explain a high number of abstentions. The chair of the PSF board was one of the Zanzibar organizers, for example.
    - cobertos 3y ago
      It doesn't seem like it was so simple as the open letter puts it? From the boards blog post https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2023/10/september-october-board-votes.html https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2023/10/september-october-board... The first vote had 6 abstentions and 4 yes votes. The second vote had 10 yes votes and 1 abstention. It seemed there was enough outstanding information/questions for 6 total people to abstain, though perhaps 1 of those 6 was using it nefariously? Hard to say
  - layer8 3y ago
    How many LGBT Python developers would actually feel shunted by the PSF sponsoring a conference in Zanzibar?
danpalmer 3y ago
It's also done with the aim of helping put on an effective event and supporting the community, if the grant status is unknown until weeks before, that goal is severely undermined. I doubt the authors of this would have had a problem with being rejected 3 months before the event, at least that would be some certainty and they could cancel or seek alternative funding.
dilawar 3y ago
True but I'd have appreciated if they said no to the grant earlier. I hope Python Africa has learnt it lesson and will find ways to manage resources locally. That the only way to succeed in long run.
- anewhnaccount2 3y ago
  So PSF is not a global organisation. Africa need not apply is a pretty bad look.
  - mdew 3y ago
    Then when you tell Westerners that Africans are trying to "develop their continent" themselves, but they face various kinds of hurdles towards this objective, they will only dismiss it and say it's just that they are incapable of developing anything...
paganel 3y ago
So what's the PSF for, then? Looks like supporting the spread of Python the language in geographical spaces like Africa should be at the top of their priorities list, at least by looking at current demographic trends, and not to invest in another boring Python conference held in Nowhere, OH, or in Neinpinkelsburg, Northern Rhenanina.
- ttyprintk 3y ago
  > to support and facilitate the growth of a diverse and international community of Python programmers. A lot of comments are related to whether an alternative pan-African PSF would define diversity differently. If so, then a Eurocentric PSF might prefer conferences elsewhere.

gwd 3y ago

Then say "no" quickly so that they can look for other funding. [EDIT] And be honest about the fact that Africans (or more charitably, countries that have particular laws or a particular pattern of enforcement) Need Not Apply.

bruce343434 3y ago
>And be honest about the fact that Africans Need Not Apply I have the hunch that that is what it came down to, a matter of public perception. Shunt africa, or shunt lgbt? Both "important minority identities" in the current zeitgeist of the western world. Probably no one wanted to touch that decision with a 10 ft pole.
- jsmeaton 3y ago
  The open letter states it was a single individual that was able to stonewall the process. It wasn’t about the PSF group as a whole that didn’t want to touch the decision. One person. I think the letter has a fairly good point that processes are broken if this is possible.
  - ttyprintk 3y ago
    I have to guess that, based on the meeting minutes posted nearby, the one vote needed to reach 5/10 vote is what this is referring to. The minutes explain a high number of abstentions. The chair of the PSF board was one of the Zanzibar organizers, for example.
  - cobertos 3y ago
    It doesn't seem like it was so simple as the open letter puts it? From the boards blog post https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2023/10/september-october-board-votes.html https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2023/10/september-october-board... The first vote had 6 abstentions and 4 yes votes. The second vote had 10 yes votes and 1 abstention. It seemed there was enough outstanding information/questions for 6 total people to abstain, though perhaps 1 of those 6 was using it nefariously? Hard to say
- layer8 3y ago
  How many LGBT Python developers would actually feel shunted by the PSF sponsoring a conference in Zanzibar?

danpalmer 3y ago

It's also done with the aim of helping put on an effective event and supporting the community, if the grant status is unknown until weeks before, that goal is severely undermined. I doubt the authors of this would have had a problem with being rejected 3 months before the event, at least that would be some certainty and they could cancel or seek alternative funding.

dilawar 3y ago

True but I'd have appreciated if they said no to the grant earlier. I hope Python Africa has learnt it lesson and will find ways to manage resources locally. That the only way to succeed in long run.

anewhnaccount2 3y ago
So PSF is not a global organisation. Africa need not apply is a pretty bad look.
- mdew 3y ago
  Then when you tell Westerners that Africans are trying to "develop their continent" themselves, but they face various kinds of hurdles towards this objective, they will only dismiss it and say it's just that they are incapable of developing anything...

paganel 3y ago

So what's the PSF for, then? Looks like supporting the spread of Python the language in geographical spaces like Africa should be at the top of their priorities list, at least by looking at current demographic trends, and not to invest in another boring Python conference held in Nowhere, OH, or in Neinpinkelsburg, Northern Rhenanina.

ttyprintk 3y ago
> to support and facilitate the growth of a diverse and international community of Python programmers. A lot of comments are related to whether an alternative pan-African PSF would define diversity differently. If so, then a Eurocentric PSF might prefer conferences elsewhere.