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The only very commonly used language that I can think of with a single dev environment is Excel. Every other one (c, c++, Java, various .Net, python, Ruby, and

The only very commonly used language that I can think of with a single dev environment is Excel. Every other one (c, c++, Java, various .Net, python, Ruby, and yes, Clojure) has a variety of editors and dev tool sets in use. Is choice of tooling somehow bad?

owl57 3y ago
> The only very commonly used language that I can think of with a single dev environment is Excel Not sure if this is still the case, but last time I tried to write something in Kotlin it didn't have decent support in any editor outside of JetBrains.
- Capricorn2481 3y ago
  And that's been a negative for Kotlin for a while now
freedomben 3y ago
I would disagree that Java has a variety of editors and dev tool sets in use. Of course there are occasional people that branch outside of jet brains, but they are a tiny minority. Most Java projects I have worked on are dependent on IntelliJ. Given this end the fact that many clojure people come from Java, it does not surprise me at all to see this attitude.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  Interesting. I would have expected "Java devs not using Jet Brains" to vastly outnumber those using it, rather than being a tiny minority. Trying to estimate their sales, it seems like JetBrains is around $400M/yr in revenue. Looking at their pricing, it seems like $400/user/yr is a fair estimate, which suggests around 1 million paying users for JetBrains. Oracle claims 10M or more Java devs (undoubtedly many of those are dabblers in Java rather than 2000 hours/year users, but JetBrains sells to a lot of non-Java devs as well).
  - freedomben 3y ago
    Interesting indeed! My sample definitely skews toward the small company/startup field, although I've worked with some big banks too a those devs were all using IntelliJ.
    - ecshafer 3y ago
      I worked for a finance company that everyone was using Eclipse, and it was almost impossible to break out of eclipse (except maybe for a new application) because there were custom Eclipse plugins written to even get some applications to compile locally.
  - xcv123 3y ago
    Jetbrains took the #1 spot from Eclipse many years ago. The free community edition is fully capable.
    - owl57 3y ago
      And another free IDEA edition — Android Studio — might be even more popular.
- seancorfield 3y ago
  I've been doing Java since '97 and have gone through dozens of IDEs and editors over the years -- and never used IntelliJ (because I don't like it).

owl57 3y ago

> The only very commonly used language that I can think of with a single dev environment is Excel Not sure if this is still the case, but last time I tried to write something in Kotlin it didn't have decent support in any editor outside of JetBrains.

Capricorn2481 3y ago
And that's been a negative for Kotlin for a while now

freedomben 3y ago

I would disagree that Java has a variety of editors and dev tool sets in use. Of course there are occasional people that branch outside of jet brains, but they are a tiny minority. Most Java projects I have worked on are dependent on IntelliJ. Given this end the fact that many clojure people come from Java, it does not surprise me at all to see this attitude.

sokoloff 3y ago
Interesting. I would have expected "Java devs not using Jet Brains" to vastly outnumber those using it, rather than being a tiny minority. Trying to estimate their sales, it seems like JetBrains is around $400M/yr in revenue. Looking at their pricing, it seems like $400/user/yr is a fair estimate, which suggests around 1 million paying users for JetBrains. Oracle claims 10M or more Java devs (undoubtedly many of those are dabblers in Java rather than 2000 hours/year users, but JetBrains sells to a lot of non-Java devs as well).
- freedomben 3y ago
  Interesting indeed! My sample definitely skews toward the small company/startup field, although I've worked with some big banks too a those devs were all using IntelliJ.
  - ecshafer 3y ago
    I worked for a finance company that everyone was using Eclipse, and it was almost impossible to break out of eclipse (except maybe for a new application) because there were custom Eclipse plugins written to even get some applications to compile locally.
- xcv123 3y ago
  Jetbrains took the #1 spot from Eclipse many years ago. The free community edition is fully capable.
  - owl57 3y ago
    And another free IDEA edition — Android Studio — might be even more popular.
seancorfield 3y ago
I've been doing Java since '97 and have gone through dozens of IDEs and editors over the years -- and never used IntelliJ (because I don't like it).