9 ms·

HP exec says quiet part out loud when it comes to locking in print customers

30 points by TaurenHunter 3y ago

staticelf 3y ago
HP is really a shit tier company. I haven't used any of their products that felt like it was of good quality and their support is just OK. I had a laptop and I turned it in once because it was immediately issues with the graphics and the drivers they had on their website was out of date and clashed with Windows update drivers that basically blue screened the computer. Luckily, I don't use either HP or windows anymore. Their Z-line is ok tho and most of them have great linux support.
- timbit42 3y ago
  It's really sad that they own the assets of DEC, Compaq and Tandem.
cm2187 3y ago
This is a disingenuous headline. From the context she clearly meant "locking in" as in a customer buying a subscription, not vendor lockin as in you can only use our ink (not saying it isn't happening, just that this was not the context).
- Osiris 3y ago
  I find that an odd hair to split because both are happening and both are part of the same strategy.
  - cm2187 3y ago
    Yeah but the headline says she says the quiet part out loud.
ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
Sounds like an abusive relationship between HP and their customers. It's worrying that people are printing less and yet HP are taking more money from people, but surely it's inevitable that at some point people will just refuse to deal with HP unless they change course and provide better value.
euroderf 3y ago
Incredibly, NYTimes Wirecutter still recommends HPs.
- bayindirh 3y ago
  Because, when you don't get a subscription, an InkAdvantage printer is not that expensive and can work for more than a decade, without any issues. I have a Deskjet 4515 with duplexer and scanner. It's surprisingly robust for its age. It works with everything, incl. AirPrint, driverless CUPS, Google Cloud Print (while it lasted). Mine still has an e-mail address I can send documents and get printouts. Similarly it can scan to e-mail directly. Lastly it's still compatible with latest Smart App, which provides nice things like printables (To Do lists, notebook pages, etc.). It can print good quality photos, and while the original inks are not all-pigment, the photo printouts can withstand the time (5+ years) pretty well. I buy two sets of cartridges per year, and that thing costs less than month's gas in a year. Why wouldn't I like it? There's no reason.
  - Roark66 3y ago
    What about the ink drying out if you don't use it for printing for a couple of months? I thought no informed person would buy one of these, let alone be happy with their purchase. I bought a laser b/w printer a decade ago and I never looked back at ink. It would be nice to be able to print in color maybe twice per year. Scanning would be nice to have as well as the ability to print photos, but more often than not I'd want a roller scanner rather than flat bed (when I scan I have many pages to do). When I have just one page, the smartphone is a good enough tool. So unless one has a need to print color documents or photos regularly (at least once every 2 weeks) I struggle to understand the benefits.
    - bzzzt 3y ago
      > What about the ink drying out if you don't use it for printing for a couple of months? If you really only print 2 times per year you don't need a printer. Even when dried out, HP inkjet printers have integrated print heads with the cartridge so you can just replace the cartridge and print again. My previous printer was a Canon which sipped a significant volume of ink by aggressively "cleaning" the print heads and still clogged up. A new print head was more expensive than the printer itself. I don't like the HP subscription model, the annoying way of requiring an app/crapware to install the printer. It's untrustworthy and a blemish in whatever is left of the good name of HP from the past. But even 'just buy a Brother' tries that kind of tricks now so it seems enshittification has reached the whole market.
isoprophlex 3y ago
> a multi-year strategy to convert unprofitable business into something more lucrative That's the Shit Squeeze right there. The MBA geniuses going all-in on their customer-hostile business models to keep the superficial value creation going. Of course in reality they're hollowing out the brand, the user experience, and through the horrors of game theory probably also the entire industry. The only thing they're squeezing out in the long term is a fat steamy turd. But that's probably not anyone's concern.
DougN7 3y ago
HP had the best printers 20-30 years ago so I stuck with them. Recently I got so fed up with them and their ink BS that I switched to an Epson ECO Tank printer, and I’m happy to say that I’ve been delighted. HP is shooting themselves in the foot.
BadJo0Jo0 3y ago
I have a M283FDW, it's great besides the firmware for toner checks. The one time I tried a third party toner, only to have it get bricked a week later, made me want to try to tackle creating a custom firmware or just straight come up with a drop in mainboard. Would be an interesting project if I had the spare time
beej71 3y ago
What's best these days for B&W laser? Something that works well with no subscriptions, and hopefully no near-term planned obsolescence? Wish list: can refill toner cartridges.
- bayindirh 3y ago
  I can’t vouch for refillable toner, but Xerox (formerly Samsung) SoHo printers with network, duplexer and replaceable rollers are unbeatable. 3000 page toner, 9000 page imager, AirPrint, Linux and macOS support, incredibly nice economode, starts quick, prints fast. No frills printers with tons of goodies. I had two. First one lasted a decade, rollers gave up. Second one (MD2825) has replaceable rollers and is around 6-7 years old IIRC. Unstoppable.
friend_and_foe 3y ago
I wonder why there's not an open source hardware and firmware for a simple black and white printer that takes those old ubiquitous ribbon toner cartidges. We have open source robots of all kinds, 3d printers, but I can't find a single open source document printer.

30 points by TaurenHunter 3y ago

HP is really a shit tier company. I haven't used any of their products that felt like it was of good quality and their support is just OK. I had a laptop and I turned it in once because it was immediately issues with the graphics and the drivers they had on their website was out of date and clashed with Windows update drivers that basically blue screened the computer. Luckily, I don't use either HP or windows anymore. Their Z-line is ok tho and most of them have great linux support.

timbit42 3y ago
It's really sad that they own the assets of DEC, Compaq and Tandem.

cm2187 3y ago

This is a disingenuous headline. From the context she clearly meant "locking in" as in a customer buying a subscription, not vendor lockin as in you can only use our ink (not saying it isn't happening, just that this was not the context).

Osiris 3y ago
I find that an odd hair to split because both are happening and both are part of the same strategy.
- cm2187 3y ago
  Yeah but the headline says she says the quiet part out loud.

ndsipa_pomu 3y ago

Sounds like an abusive relationship between HP and their customers. It's worrying that people are printing less and yet HP are taking more money from people, but surely it's inevitable that at some point people will just refuse to deal with HP unless they change course and provide better value.

euroderf 3y ago

Incredibly, NYTimes Wirecutter still recommends HPs.

bayindirh 3y ago
Because, when you don't get a subscription, an InkAdvantage printer is not that expensive and can work for more than a decade, without any issues. I have a Deskjet 4515 with duplexer and scanner. It's surprisingly robust for its age. It works with everything, incl. AirPrint, driverless CUPS, Google Cloud Print (while it lasted). Mine still has an e-mail address I can send documents and get printouts. Similarly it can scan to e-mail directly. Lastly it's still compatible with latest Smart App, which provides nice things like printables (To Do lists, notebook pages, etc.). It can print good quality photos, and while the original inks are not all-pigment, the photo printouts can withstand the time (5+ years) pretty well. I buy two sets of cartridges per year, and that thing costs less than month's gas in a year. Why wouldn't I like it? There's no reason.
- Roark66 3y ago
  What about the ink drying out if you don't use it for printing for a couple of months? I thought no informed person would buy one of these, let alone be happy with their purchase. I bought a laser b/w printer a decade ago and I never looked back at ink. It would be nice to be able to print in color maybe twice per year. Scanning would be nice to have as well as the ability to print photos, but more often than not I'd want a roller scanner rather than flat bed (when I scan I have many pages to do). When I have just one page, the smartphone is a good enough tool. So unless one has a need to print color documents or photos regularly (at least once every 2 weeks) I struggle to understand the benefits.
  - bzzzt 3y ago
    > What about the ink drying out if you don't use it for printing for a couple of months? If you really only print 2 times per year you don't need a printer. Even when dried out, HP inkjet printers have integrated print heads with the cartridge so you can just replace the cartridge and print again. My previous printer was a Canon which sipped a significant volume of ink by aggressively "cleaning" the print heads and still clogged up. A new print head was more expensive than the printer itself. I don't like the HP subscription model, the annoying way of requiring an app/crapware to install the printer. It's untrustworthy and a blemish in whatever is left of the good name of HP from the past. But even 'just buy a Brother' tries that kind of tricks now so it seems enshittification has reached the whole market.

isoprophlex 3y ago

> a multi-year strategy to convert unprofitable business into something more lucrative That's the Shit Squeeze right there. The MBA geniuses going all-in on their customer-hostile business models to keep the superficial value creation going. Of course in reality they're hollowing out the brand, the user experience, and through the horrors of game theory probably also the entire industry. The only thing they're squeezing out in the long term is a fat steamy turd. But that's probably not anyone's concern.

DougN7 3y ago

HP had the best printers 20-30 years ago so I stuck with them. Recently I got so fed up with them and their ink BS that I switched to an Epson ECO Tank printer, and I’m happy to say that I’ve been delighted. HP is shooting themselves in the foot.

BadJo0Jo0 3y ago

I have a M283FDW, it's great besides the firmware for toner checks. The one time I tried a third party toner, only to have it get bricked a week later, made me want to try to tackle creating a custom firmware or just straight come up with a drop in mainboard. Would be an interesting project if I had the spare time

beej71 3y ago

What's best these days for B&W laser? Something that works well with no subscriptions, and hopefully no near-term planned obsolescence? Wish list: can refill toner cartridges.

bayindirh 3y ago
I can’t vouch for refillable toner, but Xerox (formerly Samsung) SoHo printers with network, duplexer and replaceable rollers are unbeatable. 3000 page toner, 9000 page imager, AirPrint, Linux and macOS support, incredibly nice economode, starts quick, prints fast. No frills printers with tons of goodies. I had two. First one lasted a decade, rollers gave up. Second one (MD2825) has replaceable rollers and is around 6-7 years old IIRC. Unstoppable.

friend_and_foe 3y ago

I wonder why there's not an open source hardware and firmware for a simple black and white printer that takes those old ubiquitous ribbon toner cartidges. We have open source robots of all kinds, 3d printers, but I can't find a single open source document printer.