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At this point, why not just wait for Apple to release their RCS implementation? The nicest thing about iMessage (for me, at least) has always been that it was

At this point, why not just wait for Apple to release their RCS implementation? The nicest thing about iMessage (for me, at least) has always been that it was a significant improvement to SMS that just worked, with graceful fallback to SMS for anyone who didn't use it. No installing third party apps, wondering if someone new I wanted to contact would be on that messaging app, etc. A nice bonus, but not something that would ever get in my way. Wanting to install a third-party app on an Android phone just to get blue bubbles is weird.

lostlogin 3y ago
> SMS that just worked, with graceful fallback to SMS I’ve never seen it fall back gracefully. My experience is that there are missing messages, unsent messages and confusing group threads. I’m not in the US and am in New Zealand which may or may not be relevant.
jpalawaga 3y ago
It's not weird. It might be weird in your eyes, but given how much exclusionary behaviour I've seen based on bubble colour, it's not weird in the slightest. I'd like to believe that apple supporting RCS will magically fix the whole 'green bubble/blue bubble' thing but I'm bearish as it seems to be more a cult thing than anything to do with functionality (I say this as an iMessage user). And please, spare me the trite 'get new friends' comment.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  > And please, spare me the trite 'get new friends' comment. Wow, okay then. Anyway, I'd argue that the bubble color serves a useful purpose. At this point I definitely want to know whether someone I'm talking to is SMS or iMessage, because there's a meaningful difference in capability that will affect choices I make (like how to get pictures or video to them). Whether it's colored bubbles or something else, it's going to exist in some form. I'd be bearish too if that were an important thing to fix, because it's human nature that's the problem, not the technology. The solution is a universal messaging technology that is as good as iMessage and has the broad reach of SMS. Perhaps if Google can get their proprietary extension of RCS standardized and implemented by the carriers directly.
  - lelandbatey 3y ago
    I mean, the way everyone else solves this problem is by having an SMS app and a "proprietary messaging platform". Cramming them together in order to increase adoption of the proprietary thing is definitely a... choice.
nomel 3y ago
The full app, Beeper Cloud, has a bunch of clients built in, that they'll be adding to this (as said in the link). This isn't just iMessage support, it's (eventually) multi-client. > Over time, we will be adding all networks that Beeper supports into Beeper Mini, including SMS/RCS, WhatsApp, Messenger, Signal, Telegram, Instagram, Twitter, Slack, Discord, Google Chat and Linkedin.
standardUser 3y ago
WhatsApp, Telegram and many other platforms do everything that iMessage does and more, without the deliberate segregation of users on different platforms. In effect, you are using a third party app (as opposed to stock SMS), but Apple has integrated it into their OS and refused to release versions for other platforms.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  So you're saying that if I install WhatsApp on my phone, I can text anyone I want, if I have their phone number? Doesn't matter if they have WhatsApp installed? I just say "send this to 5551212" and it gets there?
  - standardUser 3y ago
    They need to install the app, which is free. What they don't need to do is buy an iPhone, which is not free.
    - danaris 3y ago
      So they absolutely segregate users onto their proprietary platform, it just happens not to cost money to use.
    - rootusrootus 3y ago
      Android phones are free? I have to buy the phone no matter what, so I don't see that as a differentiator. I don't want multiple ecosystems that don't interoperate at all. I don't want to give my private conversations over to an ad company like Facebook. I like iMessage because it adds features without taking. I don't worry about what app I need to use depending on who I want to talk to, I just send them a message and move on with my life.
      - gkbrk 3y ago
        You can run Android apps on almost any non-Apple brand of phones, Windows PCs, Linux, Mac OS and Chromebooks. You can run iMessage on Apple devices, nowhere else. Surely you see the difference.
matsemann 3y ago
> with graceful fallback Have you ever tried to stop having an Apple device? Hopefully better now, but a few years ago there was no way to unlink iMessage. So say good bye to all your Apple friends, as them texting you goes to the Apple cloud and not your new phone.
- Zr40 3y ago
  > a few years ago there was no way to unlink iMessage Deregistration[1] has been supported since November 2014. [1]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203042 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203042
  - freedomben 3y ago
    Maybe that would be obvious to the average Apple user, but as a non-Apple user, it would never occur to me that I'd have to explicitly de-register my phone number with Apple after activating a new phone.
    - rootusrootus 3y ago
      That seems okay? It's only applicable to the Apple user to begin with.
      - freedomben 3y ago
        heh, fair point. I was mainly thinking about somebody dipping a toe in or trying out an iphone for a little bit before switching back
  - matsemann 3y ago
    There was a time after you still needed to have the iPhone to do it, though. And I'm not sure how many are actually aware you have to do this, just getting messages for them sent into the void.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  Yep, I used to switch back and forth between iPhone and Android every couple years. I'd deregister the phone number when switching over to Android. I don't remember a time they didn't offer that ability.
danaris 3y ago
If what you care about is the color of your bubbles, then that won't make a difference. Green bubbles don't mean "second-class citizen" or "doesn't support proper group chats"; they mean "SMS" (or possibly "not iMessage"; that's not yet clear). It's extremely unlikely Apple will make RCS bubbles blue—even if they don't make them green (and keep that reserved specifically for SMS), they'll make them some other color. It's not a way to make sure you can identify the outgroup and shun them; it's a meaningful signal of what technology other people you're chatting with are using, which tells you useful information about their capabilities.
- freedomben 3y ago
  > It's not a way to make sure you can identify the outgroup and shun them; it's a meaningful signal of what technology other people you're chatting with are using, which tells you useful information about their capabilities. That seems like a false dichotomy to me as those are not mutually exclusive, and indeed can (and are) both easily accomplished with the current system.
  - danaris 3y ago
    Sorry; I was, perhaps, unclear. Apple does not in any way intend it to be used to identify the outgroup and shun them. SMS on the iPhone used green bubbles for years before iMessage existed. When iMessage was introduced, it had blue bubbles simply to distinguish it and make clear "these are users of the new service you can video chat with, send files to, etc". Like I said: a useful informational signal. It wasn't until years after that that this wailing and gnashing of teeth about blue vs green bubbles started. To the extent that such a social dichotomy exists, it is a purely emergent socially-created one, not one that Apple has pushed in any way. Furthermore, it would be a regression for Apple to remove that useful informational signal just because people are upset that they get accurately identified as "the one in the group who is using a different device, and thus cannot safely be added to group chats for reasons entirely outside of Apple's control". The bubble color isn't the problem. The problem is, as you somewhat allude to, inseparable from the fact that there is a way to tell the difference between People Using iMessage on Apple Messages and People Using SMS.

lostlogin 3y ago

> SMS that just worked, with graceful fallback to SMS I’ve never seen it fall back gracefully. My experience is that there are missing messages, unsent messages and confusing group threads. I’m not in the US and am in New Zealand which may or may not be relevant.

jpalawaga 3y ago

It's not weird. It might be weird in your eyes, but given how much exclusionary behaviour I've seen based on bubble colour, it's not weird in the slightest. I'd like to believe that apple supporting RCS will magically fix the whole 'green bubble/blue bubble' thing but I'm bearish as it seems to be more a cult thing than anything to do with functionality (I say this as an iMessage user). And please, spare me the trite 'get new friends' comment.

rootusrootus 3y ago
> And please, spare me the trite 'get new friends' comment. Wow, okay then. Anyway, I'd argue that the bubble color serves a useful purpose. At this point I definitely want to know whether someone I'm talking to is SMS or iMessage, because there's a meaningful difference in capability that will affect choices I make (like how to get pictures or video to them). Whether it's colored bubbles or something else, it's going to exist in some form. I'd be bearish too if that were an important thing to fix, because it's human nature that's the problem, not the technology. The solution is a universal messaging technology that is as good as iMessage and has the broad reach of SMS. Perhaps if Google can get their proprietary extension of RCS standardized and implemented by the carriers directly.
- lelandbatey 3y ago
  I mean, the way everyone else solves this problem is by having an SMS app and a "proprietary messaging platform". Cramming them together in order to increase adoption of the proprietary thing is definitely a... choice.

nomel 3y ago

The full app, Beeper Cloud, has a bunch of clients built in, that they'll be adding to this (as said in the link). This isn't just iMessage support, it's (eventually) multi-client. > Over time, we will be adding all networks that Beeper supports into Beeper Mini, including SMS/RCS, WhatsApp, Messenger, Signal, Telegram, Instagram, Twitter, Slack, Discord, Google Chat and Linkedin.

standardUser 3y ago

WhatsApp, Telegram and many other platforms do everything that iMessage does and more, without the deliberate segregation of users on different platforms. In effect, you are using a third party app (as opposed to stock SMS), but Apple has integrated it into their OS and refused to release versions for other platforms.

rootusrootus 3y ago
So you're saying that if I install WhatsApp on my phone, I can text anyone I want, if I have their phone number? Doesn't matter if they have WhatsApp installed? I just say "send this to 5551212" and it gets there?
- standardUser 3y ago
  They need to install the app, which is free. What they don't need to do is buy an iPhone, which is not free.
  - danaris 3y ago
    So they absolutely segregate users onto their proprietary platform, it just happens not to cost money to use.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    Android phones are free? I have to buy the phone no matter what, so I don't see that as a differentiator. I don't want multiple ecosystems that don't interoperate at all. I don't want to give my private conversations over to an ad company like Facebook. I like iMessage because it adds features without taking. I don't worry about what app I need to use depending on who I want to talk to, I just send them a message and move on with my life.
    - gkbrk 3y ago
      You can run Android apps on almost any non-Apple brand of phones, Windows PCs, Linux, Mac OS and Chromebooks. You can run iMessage on Apple devices, nowhere else. Surely you see the difference.

matsemann 3y ago

> with graceful fallback Have you ever tried to stop having an Apple device? Hopefully better now, but a few years ago there was no way to unlink iMessage. So say good bye to all your Apple friends, as them texting you goes to the Apple cloud and not your new phone.

Zr40 3y ago
> a few years ago there was no way to unlink iMessage Deregistration[1] has been supported since November 2014. [1]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203042 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203042
- freedomben 3y ago
  Maybe that would be obvious to the average Apple user, but as a non-Apple user, it would never occur to me that I'd have to explicitly de-register my phone number with Apple after activating a new phone.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    That seems okay? It's only applicable to the Apple user to begin with.
    - freedomben 3y ago
      heh, fair point. I was mainly thinking about somebody dipping a toe in or trying out an iphone for a little bit before switching back
- matsemann 3y ago
  There was a time after you still needed to have the iPhone to do it, though. And I'm not sure how many are actually aware you have to do this, just getting messages for them sent into the void.
rootusrootus 3y ago
Yep, I used to switch back and forth between iPhone and Android every couple years. I'd deregister the phone number when switching over to Android. I don't remember a time they didn't offer that ability.

danaris 3y ago

If what you care about is the color of your bubbles, then that won't make a difference. Green bubbles don't mean "second-class citizen" or "doesn't support proper group chats"; they mean "SMS" (or possibly "not iMessage"; that's not yet clear). It's extremely unlikely Apple will make RCS bubbles blue—even if they don't make them green (and keep that reserved specifically for SMS), they'll make them some other color. It's not a way to make sure you can identify the outgroup and shun them; it's a meaningful signal of what technology other people you're chatting with are using, which tells you useful information about their capabilities.

freedomben 3y ago
> It's not a way to make sure you can identify the outgroup and shun them; it's a meaningful signal of what technology other people you're chatting with are using, which tells you useful information about their capabilities. That seems like a false dichotomy to me as those are not mutually exclusive, and indeed can (and are) both easily accomplished with the current system.
- danaris 3y ago
  Sorry; I was, perhaps, unclear. Apple does not in any way intend it to be used to identify the outgroup and shun them. SMS on the iPhone used green bubbles for years before iMessage existed. When iMessage was introduced, it had blue bubbles simply to distinguish it and make clear "these are users of the new service you can video chat with, send files to, etc". Like I said: a useful informational signal. It wasn't until years after that that this wailing and gnashing of teeth about blue vs green bubbles started. To the extent that such a social dichotomy exists, it is a purely emergent socially-created one, not one that Apple has pushed in any way. Furthermore, it would be a regression for Apple to remove that useful informational signal just because people are upset that they get accurately identified as "the one in the group who is using a different device, and thus cannot safely be added to group chats for reasons entirely outside of Apple's control". The bubble color isn't the problem. The problem is, as you somewhat allude to, inseparable from the fact that there is a way to tell the difference between People Using iMessage on Apple Messages and People Using SMS.