3 ms·

What is it about this topic that drives people absolutely crazy? Far less than 1% of people ID as trans yet it's just the most important cultural shibboleth a

What is it about this topic that drives people absolutely crazy? Far less than 1% of people ID as trans yet it's just the most important cultural shibboleth and just mentioned / argued about constantly... why do you care at all how Wikipedia phrases the opening paragraph on their page about Trans women?

fffs 3y ago
It's because this is a fundamental redefinition of the difference between women and men, one which seriously disadvantages women. When this ideological stance of "trans women are women" is enacted into law and imposed as policy, it has the effect of eradicating female-only spaces, forcing women to accept any man who purports to be a woman in these spaces. This is good enough reason to oppose it.
anoxor 3y ago
There were women's spaces (bathrooms / changing rooms) for example that kept women safe from predatory men. Who should be allowed in those? Is it defined by the clothes? If a predatory man / bad actor decides to put on those clothes to abuse the system, then what? What if the predatory man / bad actor decides to hang just below the bar of illegality, and creep on women long term?
- mikeyouse 3y ago
  Is this something that you spent a lot of time worrying about prior to this bizarre trans panic? All of the existing laws that prevent predatory men from creeping on women in those spaces also apply to trans people..
  - anoxor 3y ago
    Trans panic? Totally disagree, it’s now entirely legal in many places for a predatory man to say he identifies as a woman, and change in spaces previously created to keep women safe. And yes, thanks, I do like thinking about issues of justice, morality, and politics. https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/01/30/putting-trans-women-in-female-prisons-sets-up-a-clash-of-rights https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/01/30/putting-t... Excellent example. Is it possible for a convicted criminal to game compassion to be moved from a men’s to women’s prison. Would anyone lie in that situation? There is probably a whole lot more people to take advantage of if your a convicted predator in a woman’s prison.
anonymouskimmer 3y ago
I think the major things that drive anti-trans people crazy are laws, regulations, and policies compelling speech [1], and creating mandatory mixed-sex spaces [2] and competitions (we're still in an era where women have to fight for rights such as sports equality [3] and lactation rooms). While Pew doesn't get into the question you're asking, it's research results show how widely people think on the issue [4]. A breadth of ideology facilitates polarization and craziness. For pro-trans people you probably have a silent majority, but the crazy minority [5] will range the gamut in motivation. [1] - https://www.insider.com/california-court-says-legal-to-misgender-deadname-trans-people-2021-7 https://www.insider.com/california-court-says-legal-to-misge... [2] - https://www.archdaily.com/984280/designing-around-debate-the-gender-neutral-bathroom https://www.archdaily.com/984280/designing-around-debate-the... - Search for "Hesitancy is a significant hurdle behind the widespread" to get to the point where they start discussing this. [3] - https://www.hawaiipublicradio.org/local-news/2023-11-01/state-doe-settles-case-with-campbell-high-school-female-athletes-over-gender-inequity https://www.hawaiipublicradio.org/local-news/2023-11-01/stat... [4] - https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/america... [5] - https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/opinion-trans-rights-radical-activism-1.6220106 https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/opinion-trans-rights-radical...

fffs 3y ago

It's because this is a fundamental redefinition of the difference between women and men, one which seriously disadvantages women. When this ideological stance of "trans women are women" is enacted into law and imposed as policy, it has the effect of eradicating female-only spaces, forcing women to accept any man who purports to be a woman in these spaces. This is good enough reason to oppose it.

anoxor 3y ago

There were women's spaces (bathrooms / changing rooms) for example that kept women safe from predatory men. Who should be allowed in those? Is it defined by the clothes? If a predatory man / bad actor decides to put on those clothes to abuse the system, then what? What if the predatory man / bad actor decides to hang just below the bar of illegality, and creep on women long term?

mikeyouse 3y ago
Is this something that you spent a lot of time worrying about prior to this bizarre trans panic? All of the existing laws that prevent predatory men from creeping on women in those spaces also apply to trans people..
- anoxor 3y ago
  Trans panic? Totally disagree, it’s now entirely legal in many places for a predatory man to say he identifies as a woman, and change in spaces previously created to keep women safe. And yes, thanks, I do like thinking about issues of justice, morality, and politics. https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/01/30/putting-trans-women-in-female-prisons-sets-up-a-clash-of-rights https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/01/30/putting-t... Excellent example. Is it possible for a convicted criminal to game compassion to be moved from a men’s to women’s prison. Would anyone lie in that situation? There is probably a whole lot more people to take advantage of if your a convicted predator in a woman’s prison.

anonymouskimmer 3y ago

I think the major things that drive anti-trans people crazy are laws, regulations, and policies compelling speech [1], and creating mandatory mixed-sex spaces [2] and competitions (we're still in an era where women have to fight for rights such as sports equality [3] and lactation rooms). While Pew doesn't get into the question you're asking, it's research results show how widely people think on the issue [4]. A breadth of ideology facilitates polarization and craziness. For pro-trans people you probably have a silent majority, but the crazy minority [5] will range the gamut in motivation. [1] - https://www.insider.com/california-court-says-legal-to-misgender-deadname-trans-people-2021-7 https://www.insider.com/california-court-says-legal-to-misge... [2] - https://www.archdaily.com/984280/designing-around-debate-the-gender-neutral-bathroom https://www.archdaily.com/984280/designing-around-debate-the... - Search for "Hesitancy is a significant hurdle behind the widespread" to get to the point where they start discussing this. [3] - https://www.hawaiipublicradio.org/local-news/2023-11-01/state-doe-settles-case-with-campbell-high-school-female-athletes-over-gender-inequity https://www.hawaiipublicradio.org/local-news/2023-11-01/stat... [4] - https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/america... [5] - https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/opinion-trans-rights-radical-activism-1.6220106 https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/opinion-trans-rights-radical...