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A freedom that I desire more greatly is a durable liberation from having to see any more Cory Doctorow articles. Remember 20 years ago when this guy was telling

A freedom that I desire more greatly is a durable liberation from having to see any more Cory Doctorow articles. Remember 20 years ago when this guy was telling everyone that Microsoft was going to use the TPM to prevent you from installing Linux? Did that happen?

esafak 3y ago
Was the scaremonger wrong, or simply effective in effecting change? Another contemporary issue: the Y2K scare.
- jeffbee 3y ago
  It was wrong. Only charlatans pretend that shouting about something that wasn't going to happen stopped the thing from happening.
  - Syonyk 3y ago
    Why are you asserting it "wasn't going to happen"? The whole Paladium trusted boot/"known OS environment"/etc stuff could very easily have gone down the path of "This hardware only boots Windows." Secure Boot has been a pain for a while, though at least you can turn it off. Nobody at the time (as far as OEMs) seemed to care the slightest bit about Linux, so the concern of "Only boots a measured Windows install, for your own security" seemed rather worth worrying about.
    - Muromec 3y ago
      Only boots into X due to TPM is the current state of affairs on certain devices. If anything, PC world is the only holdout where it doesn't happen.
    - c0l0 3y ago
      Palladium is coming again, and this time for real, with Windows 11 and its default "Secure"/Measured Boot (de facto) requirement - and all the infrastructure in place for Internet endpoints to attest that their peers have actually been booted that way.
- adolph 3y ago
  Yes and no. As it turned out the problem wasn't with Microsoft and PCs but Apple and phones.
toomuchtodo 3y ago
Did you or do you work for Big Tech? Not asking to doxx, but to surface potential bias. I can guess from your comment history, but attempting to assume most charitable interpretation and intent. I donate to the EFF because they pay Cory, and Cory attempts to contribute towards keeping Big Tech at bay. Let's not argue about Big Tech intent here; they would conquer the world if they could. The evidence around this thesis is...robust. (recent example of Microsoft blocking Firefox from FIDO2 auth in a very public way: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38502340 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38502340)
- uoaei 3y ago
  It is fascinating how the "corporations are people" ideological bent has been internalized by so many. You see discussions all the time in these comments where people argue that "is" implies "ought" when it comes to the strategies and tactics implemented by (the people within) these powerful companies.
- tetris11 3y ago
  Same. EFF is the one organization I will always send my money to
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    I belonged to the EFF for many years before they went Full Doctorow. I no longer support either EFF or EPIC because they have gone totally off the rails.
    - tetris11 3y ago
      That's certainly an interesting view. Can you expand on that? What were they doing before that they're not doing now, or doing more of under Doctorow's influence?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
trelane 3y ago
> Microsoft was going to use the TPM to prevent you from installing Linux? Did that happen? Yes, but on ARM. https://openrt.gitbook.io/open-surfacert/common/boot-sequence/uefi/secure-boot https://openrt.gitbook.io/open-surfacert/common/boot-sequenc... https://openrt.gitbook.io/open-surfacert/common/boot-sequence/uefi/secure-boot/disable-secureboot https://openrt.gitbook.io/open-surfacert/common/boot-sequenc... Fortunately, that was forestalled on x86. Who knows if they'll ever stop signing the Linux Shim for "security reasons."
c0l0 3y ago
Actually, yes, they did so also on (some) vendors' x86 firmware: https://www.omglinux.com/boot-linux-modern-lenovo-thinkpads-bios-setting/ https://www.omglinux.com/boot-linux-modern-lenovo-thinkpads-... These default firmware settings will prevent "third-party"-MSFT-signed EFI binaries from loading - gee, I wonder why that distinction is suddenly necessary, too? :) In my view and experience, the threat model that Secure Boot and similar schemes to establishing a root of trust to assure that "noone (esp. not the owner) has tampered with this device" tries to protect against is VERY rarely relevant (to the owner of said device). The times that I have been inconvenienced or even prevented by that stuff from getting the software I, the owner of the device, want installed onto hardware that I paid good money for at a store/vendor have been numerous, however.
whatshisface 3y ago
Hah! You say King Henry the Fifth was a great strategist, but the French got stuck in the mud at Agincourt!
jauntywundrkind 3y ago
Microsoft does install keys that you can't revoke on many computers, making it somewhat impossible to secure one's own computer against outsiders. Also, recent laptops have started shipping where 3rd party OSes are blocked by default. https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/60248.html https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/60248.html https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32066919 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32066919 In my opinion, Cory is a treasure, a rare voice that consistent advocates for a development where humanity at large has the freedom to pioneer & advance the open electronic frontiers.
AnimalMuppet 3y ago
> A freedom that I desire more greatly is a durable liberation from having to see any more Cory Doctorow articles. You know, it's really easy to just ignore articles that you're not interested in. Yet you chose to respond. Why? And your accusation - he was wrong about something 20 years ago - even if true, so what? I've been wrong about a thing or two in 20 years. And, while I know that pretty much everyone else also has been, I don't keep track of what people said 20 years ago so that I can point to it to show the world how wrong that person was. This almost seems like it's personal for you. If so, why?

esafak 3y ago

Was the scaremonger wrong, or simply effective in effecting change? Another contemporary issue: the Y2K scare.

jeffbee 3y ago
It was wrong. Only charlatans pretend that shouting about something that wasn't going to happen stopped the thing from happening.
- Syonyk 3y ago
  Why are you asserting it "wasn't going to happen"? The whole Paladium trusted boot/"known OS environment"/etc stuff could very easily have gone down the path of "This hardware only boots Windows." Secure Boot has been a pain for a while, though at least you can turn it off. Nobody at the time (as far as OEMs) seemed to care the slightest bit about Linux, so the concern of "Only boots a measured Windows install, for your own security" seemed rather worth worrying about.
  - Muromec 3y ago
    Only boots into X due to TPM is the current state of affairs on certain devices. If anything, PC world is the only holdout where it doesn't happen.
  - c0l0 3y ago
    Palladium is coming again, and this time for real, with Windows 11 and its default "Secure"/Measured Boot (de facto) requirement - and all the infrastructure in place for Internet endpoints to attest that their peers have actually been booted that way.
adolph 3y ago
Yes and no. As it turned out the problem wasn't with Microsoft and PCs but Apple and phones.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

Did you or do you work for Big Tech? Not asking to doxx, but to surface potential bias. I can guess from your comment history, but attempting to assume most charitable interpretation and intent. I donate to the EFF because they pay Cory, and Cory attempts to contribute towards keeping Big Tech at bay. Let's not argue about Big Tech intent here; they would conquer the world if they could. The evidence around this thesis is...robust. (recent example of Microsoft blocking Firefox from FIDO2 auth in a very public way: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38502340 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38502340)

uoaei 3y ago
It is fascinating how the "corporations are people" ideological bent has been internalized by so many. You see discussions all the time in these comments where people argue that "is" implies "ought" when it comes to the strategies and tactics implemented by (the people within) these powerful companies.
tetris11 3y ago
Same. EFF is the one organization I will always send my money to
- jeffbee 3y ago
  I belonged to the EFF for many years before they went Full Doctorow. I no longer support either EFF or EPIC because they have gone totally off the rails.
  - tetris11 3y ago
    That's certainly an interesting view. Can you expand on that? What were they doing before that they're not doing now, or doing more of under Doctorow's influence?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

trelane 3y ago

> Microsoft was going to use the TPM to prevent you from installing Linux? Did that happen? Yes, but on ARM. https://openrt.gitbook.io/open-surfacert/common/boot-sequence/uefi/secure-boot https://openrt.gitbook.io/open-surfacert/common/boot-sequenc... https://openrt.gitbook.io/open-surfacert/common/boot-sequence/uefi/secure-boot/disable-secureboot https://openrt.gitbook.io/open-surfacert/common/boot-sequenc... Fortunately, that was forestalled on x86. Who knows if they'll ever stop signing the Linux Shim for "security reasons."

c0l0 3y ago

Actually, yes, they did so also on (some) vendors' x86 firmware: https://www.omglinux.com/boot-linux-modern-lenovo-thinkpads-bios-setting/ https://www.omglinux.com/boot-linux-modern-lenovo-thinkpads-... These default firmware settings will prevent "third-party"-MSFT-signed EFI binaries from loading - gee, I wonder why that distinction is suddenly necessary, too? :) In my view and experience, the threat model that Secure Boot and similar schemes to establishing a root of trust to assure that "noone (esp. not the owner) has tampered with this device" tries to protect against is VERY rarely relevant (to the owner of said device). The times that I have been inconvenienced or even prevented by that stuff from getting the software I, the owner of the device, want installed onto hardware that I paid good money for at a store/vendor have been numerous, however.

whatshisface 3y ago

Hah! You say King Henry the Fifth was a great strategist, but the French got stuck in the mud at Agincourt!

jauntywundrkind 3y ago

Microsoft does install keys that you can't revoke on many computers, making it somewhat impossible to secure one's own computer against outsiders. Also, recent laptops have started shipping where 3rd party OSes are blocked by default. https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/60248.html https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/60248.html https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32066919 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32066919 In my opinion, Cory is a treasure, a rare voice that consistent advocates for a development where humanity at large has the freedom to pioneer & advance the open electronic frontiers.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago

> A freedom that I desire more greatly is a durable liberation from having to see any more Cory Doctorow articles. You know, it's really easy to just ignore articles that you're not interested in. Yet you chose to respond. Why? And your accusation - he was wrong about something 20 years ago - even if true, so what? I've been wrong about a thing or two in 20 years. And, while I know that pretty much everyone else also has been, I don't keep track of what people said 20 years ago so that I can point to it to show the world how wrong that person was. This almost seems like it's personal for you. If so, why?