4 ms·

I so hate the enshittification of the Internets that I have really started to move to a so-called suckless way with a lot of features/malfeatures just cut off f

I so hate the enshittification of the Internets that I have really started to move to a so-called suckless way with a lot of features/malfeatures just cut off from my attention. Modern browsers (Firefox+Chrome duopoly) are less and less welcome on my machine.

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
> Firefox+Chrome duopoly Safari/WebKit has more users than Firefox, AFAIK
- eimrine 3y ago
  I don't know how to obtain a plausible number but Firefox is an x86 application and Safari is just a part of Apple's walled garden. Also I can not tell anything about snoop-phones because I do not use them.
  - Hamuko 3y ago
    Apple's walled garden has a lot of visitors, and everyone on iOS is forced to use Safari.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    > I don't know how to obtain a plausible number A popular search engine like Google, or a less popular and freer, user privacy respecting search engine like DuckDuckGo, if you prefer not to use Google might help you get to stats other people have reported their websites getting, which is a rough approximation of plausible numbers. Those numbers will show you, without you having to use "snoop-phones" how many, approximately, people use Firefox. Which is about 2%.
    - eimrine 3y ago
      Why do you think that some random result from Google is plausible? Why not to just search a cure from cancer or Rieman's proof in Google or DDG? The snoop-phone case means that I do not want to see mobile browsers in those digits because as far as I know about them, there is no way of activating dev mode in browser on your snoop-phone, correct me please if I'm wrong.
      - fragmede 3y ago
        Using Google and searching for "cure for cancer", I get a result from WebMD, which states "No “alternative” or natural cancer treatments have been proven to cure cancer." Using Google again, the first result searching for Rieman Hypothesis is a result from Wikipedia, which states that the Rieman Hypothesis is currently unsolved. I believe both of these results to be plausible, thus establishing some level of credibility for using Google (for me). If you have reason to dispute both of those findings, please let me (and the world) know. Now that we've established Google results are, at least, plausible, searching for "browser market share 2023", I get a result * which states that, on desktop, which seems to be why your objection to "snoop phone", Chrome has 61%, Safari has 13%, and Firefox has 6% market share. Again, if I should not believe the results from Google about the Rieman Hypothesis or the cure for cancer, please let me know. * https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worl...
  - saagarjha 3y ago
    What does Firefox’s architecture have to do with this conversation?
    - jen20 3y ago
      Unclear, but the statement itself is also wrong - there are aarch64 binaries for Firefox, and I'm quite sure it will compile and run on a wide variety of other architectures.
  - shadowgovt 3y ago
    That walled garden is the size of a continent these days. It's not really the kind of thing we can just categorically discount if we're talking about a holistic picture of how people engage to the online world.
- codelikeawolf 3y ago
  Not sure how accurate this is, but even if it's off by several percentage points, you are definitely correct: https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share
- hospitalJail 3y ago
  It makes me sad that Veblen goods dominate the tech market. Mostly sad for the human race, literally billions of humans had their inadequacy for status exploited. Capitalism is like nature. It doesnt decide who is best, it decides who is left.
- bhhaskin 3y ago
  They only have more users because of IOS. Apple doesn't allow any other browser engines.
chomp 3y ago
Did you mean Chrome/Safari or Blink/Webkit duopoly? Firefox is like 2% of users on the web.
- tomxor 3y ago
  > Firefox is like 2% That's because everyone does tracking in the front end these days and it just gets blocked by Firefox users.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    The exact figure is likely to be a little skewed by that, but I don't think it's enough to matter. At least, I rarely see anyone using Firefox anymore, when a couple of decades or so ago most people seemed to be using it.
    - eimrine 3y ago
      I have never see even a one Tor/I2p user without Firefox and these numbers will never appear in the statistics. Probably not a big share of market but these usecases are just incompatible with Chrome and what else you consider as browser, Safari?
sjaak 3y ago
What browser do you use? Afaik there is no good suckless browser
- freediver 3y ago
  You always get what you pay for. Try to find a browser you can actually pay for. At least you will know that incentives will be aligned.
- worksonmine 3y ago
  I would assume surf[0], I don't know if the suckless team makes any other browser. It's not for everyone but can be useful. [0]: https://surf.suckless.org/ https://surf.suckless.org/
  - wharvle 3y ago
    Surf's a bit too minimal for my taste, but I found a couple of the other lightweight-ish webkit-based browsers on Linux serviceable, last I checked. My motivation was I was trying to make a crappy dual-core low-clock Celeron rooted Chromebox with 2GB of memory usable as a light-duty workstation, a couple years back. I didn't find anything not webkit-based that I tried light enough to even be in the running. Firefox wasn't remotely close (nor were close Chrome-derivatives). Even light webkit browsers were practically limited to 1-3 windows/tabs depending on the weight of the pages, before they got unusable.
davely 3y ago
CNN just started blocking visitors using ad block extensions. It’s made me stop going there. Regardless of what you think of a particular news organization, I think this is a sign of things to come. (See YouTube’s experiment with warning users using ad blockers). This will probably just make me use various sites a lot less. Which, in all honesty, is probably good for my overall mental health.
- beej71 3y ago
  Sometimes ad blocker + no JS gets you in. But, yes, it's good your mental health to not visit those sites.
- cwbriscoe 3y ago
  They haven't blocked Brave yet apparently.
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  Cyberpunk stories tend to predict a consolidation to a "legit" net and some flavor of "underground" net, where users are both more capable and more vulnerable than their "aboveground" peers. I sort of suspect this is where we are headed. I'm also not sure it's a bad thing; people derive benefit from playing in a sandbox, and as long as the sandbox isn't the only option, there's value in providing it for those who don't, won't, or can't play the old 'net game of being a full peer online (with all the benefits of "publish whatever" and all the ills of "your machine was compromised? Sounds like a you problem").
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
    I see little evidence that anyone wants an "underground" net. Like, how would I report them if someone made an ethnic slur on it? No, I want to live on a sanitized network SKIP AD IN 15 SECS that only allows happiness and suppresses hate.
    - JasonSage 3y ago
      I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or genuine. I also want folks to be able to say anything on the internet, and to have agency in filtering content served to me. I’ll also pay sites that don’t abuse my humanity, to support them. Best of all worlds.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago

> Firefox+Chrome duopoly Safari/WebKit has more users than Firefox, AFAIK

eimrine 3y ago
I don't know how to obtain a plausible number but Firefox is an x86 application and Safari is just a part of Apple's walled garden. Also I can not tell anything about snoop-phones because I do not use them.
- Hamuko 3y ago
  Apple's walled garden has a lot of visitors, and everyone on iOS is forced to use Safari.
- fragmede 3y ago
  > I don't know how to obtain a plausible number A popular search engine like Google, or a less popular and freer, user privacy respecting search engine like DuckDuckGo, if you prefer not to use Google might help you get to stats other people have reported their websites getting, which is a rough approximation of plausible numbers. Those numbers will show you, without you having to use "snoop-phones" how many, approximately, people use Firefox. Which is about 2%.
  - eimrine 3y ago
    Why do you think that some random result from Google is plausible? Why not to just search a cure from cancer or Rieman's proof in Google or DDG? The snoop-phone case means that I do not want to see mobile browsers in those digits because as far as I know about them, there is no way of activating dev mode in browser on your snoop-phone, correct me please if I'm wrong.
    - fragmede 3y ago
      Using Google and searching for "cure for cancer", I get a result from WebMD, which states "No “alternative” or natural cancer treatments have been proven to cure cancer." Using Google again, the first result searching for Rieman Hypothesis is a result from Wikipedia, which states that the Rieman Hypothesis is currently unsolved. I believe both of these results to be plausible, thus establishing some level of credibility for using Google (for me). If you have reason to dispute both of those findings, please let me (and the world) know. Now that we've established Google results are, at least, plausible, searching for "browser market share 2023", I get a result * which states that, on desktop, which seems to be why your objection to "snoop phone", Chrome has 61%, Safari has 13%, and Firefox has 6% market share. Again, if I should not believe the results from Google about the Rieman Hypothesis or the cure for cancer, please let me know. * https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worl...
- saagarjha 3y ago
  What does Firefox’s architecture have to do with this conversation?
  - jen20 3y ago
    Unclear, but the statement itself is also wrong - there are aarch64 binaries for Firefox, and I'm quite sure it will compile and run on a wide variety of other architectures.
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  That walled garden is the size of a continent these days. It's not really the kind of thing we can just categorically discount if we're talking about a holistic picture of how people engage to the online world.
codelikeawolf 3y ago
Not sure how accurate this is, but even if it's off by several percentage points, you are definitely correct: https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share
hospitalJail 3y ago
It makes me sad that Veblen goods dominate the tech market. Mostly sad for the human race, literally billions of humans had their inadequacy for status exploited. Capitalism is like nature. It doesnt decide who is best, it decides who is left.
bhhaskin 3y ago
They only have more users because of IOS. Apple doesn't allow any other browser engines.

chomp 3y ago

Did you mean Chrome/Safari or Blink/Webkit duopoly? Firefox is like 2% of users on the web.

tomxor 3y ago
> Firefox is like 2% That's because everyone does tracking in the front end these days and it just gets blocked by Firefox users.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  The exact figure is likely to be a little skewed by that, but I don't think it's enough to matter. At least, I rarely see anyone using Firefox anymore, when a couple of decades or so ago most people seemed to be using it.
  - eimrine 3y ago
    I have never see even a one Tor/I2p user without Firefox and these numbers will never appear in the statistics. Probably not a big share of market but these usecases are just incompatible with Chrome and what else you consider as browser, Safari?

sjaak 3y ago

What browser do you use? Afaik there is no good suckless browser

freediver 3y ago
You always get what you pay for. Try to find a browser you can actually pay for. At least you will know that incentives will be aligned.
worksonmine 3y ago
I would assume surf[0], I don't know if the suckless team makes any other browser. It's not for everyone but can be useful. [0]: https://surf.suckless.org/ https://surf.suckless.org/
- wharvle 3y ago
  Surf's a bit too minimal for my taste, but I found a couple of the other lightweight-ish webkit-based browsers on Linux serviceable, last I checked. My motivation was I was trying to make a crappy dual-core low-clock Celeron rooted Chromebox with 2GB of memory usable as a light-duty workstation, a couple years back. I didn't find anything not webkit-based that I tried light enough to even be in the running. Firefox wasn't remotely close (nor were close Chrome-derivatives). Even light webkit browsers were practically limited to 1-3 windows/tabs depending on the weight of the pages, before they got unusable.

davely 3y ago

CNN just started blocking visitors using ad block extensions. It’s made me stop going there. Regardless of what you think of a particular news organization, I think this is a sign of things to come. (See YouTube’s experiment with warning users using ad blockers). This will probably just make me use various sites a lot less. Which, in all honesty, is probably good for my overall mental health.

beej71 3y ago
Sometimes ad blocker + no JS gets you in. But, yes, it's good your mental health to not visit those sites.
cwbriscoe 3y ago
They haven't blocked Brave yet apparently.
shadowgovt 3y ago
Cyberpunk stories tend to predict a consolidation to a "legit" net and some flavor of "underground" net, where users are both more capable and more vulnerable than their "aboveground" peers. I sort of suspect this is where we are headed. I'm also not sure it's a bad thing; people derive benefit from playing in a sandbox, and as long as the sandbox isn't the only option, there's value in providing it for those who don't, won't, or can't play the old 'net game of being a full peer online (with all the benefits of "publish whatever" and all the ills of "your machine was compromised? Sounds like a you problem").
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
  I see little evidence that anyone wants an "underground" net. Like, how would I report them if someone made an ethnic slur on it? No, I want to live on a sanitized network SKIP AD IN 15 SECS that only allows happiness and suppresses hate.
  - JasonSage 3y ago
    I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or genuine. I also want folks to be able to say anything on the internet, and to have agency in filtering content served to me. I’ll also pay sites that don’t abuse my humanity, to support them. Best of all worlds.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]