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Well, the Vue team aren't friendly to criticism of Vue. See the 2->3 migration for starters.

addicted 3y ago
The problem with the criticism of any major effort of that sort (which you saw in python2->python3 as well), is that any major effort will involve tradeoffs, it will involve mistakes, it will involve bad decisions, and it will involve good decisions that were poorly executed. That’s absolutely normal. There is no major effort ever in the history of software that was absolutely perfect. But the most upvoted comments almost always tend to be focused on those specific mistakes/tradeoffs to the detriment of the larger goal and effort. They completely decontextualize the criticism from the fact that it may be a trade off or just a simple mistake. And honestly, if I was to submit my closed source project and saw those criticism, I wouldn’t like it, but I could at least understand it. But it must be ridiculously frustrating for Open Source software developers to have put in all this effort and then have everyone Monday morning QB on HN once the work has been largely completed when they could as easily have gone to the project GitHub or community pages and shared their feedback constructively when it actually mattered and could have had an impact on the direction of the product.
conradfr 3y ago
I don't follow the development closely so maybe you are right but in the end they kept both APIs and did a great job with the compatibility layer in 3.1 to help migrate from v2. I don't know many projects which would have done that.
- dmix 3y ago
  He addresses this in the interview: Evan: They’re like, “Oh, Vue has scalability issues. We have a huge Vue product. We have these huge components that nobody wants to touch anymore. We don’t know how to extract and reuse things. TypeScript support isn’t great.” Adam: So they started Vue 3, right? A breaking change. Vue had to stay relevant. People were looking for a scalable, if more complex, framework. Expectations had changed. Evan: They’re like, “Hey. You’re taking away the very reason we love Vue, and it’s not going to be Vue anymore.” In a way, our early user base are mostly people who preferred lightweight solutions, simple interactions, simple apps. So when we propose solutions to address these more advanced cases, these simple case users get pissed off because they’re like, “Don’t touch my framework. I don’t want to work that way.” “I don’t care about these complex cases. Why are you adding these complex APIs? Why are you making things more complicated?” But at the same time, these complex case users are like, “I won’t use Vue if it stays only for simple use cases because it shows it doesn’t scale. We are gonna just migrate to React, migrate to Angular.” [discussion continues for a while https://corecursive.com/vue-with-evan-you/#composition-api https://corecursive.com/vue-with-evan-you/#composition-api]
  - satvikpendem 3y ago
    That is actually exactly why I migrated off Vue and onto React. I originally used Vue because React had some copyright issues that gave Facebook the right to revoke your license if you sued them, or something to that effect. But once they removed that and added hooks, and Vue was starting to move to the composition API, I thought, what the hell, I will just use the most popular option and switched to React, never looked back since. TypeScript support is awesome, there aren't any signals or two way data binding, and all of the most popular libraries are written for React while few are written for cross-framework compatibility.
  - paradox460 3y ago
    In his defense, the new composition API is really good. At the level of react hooks vs class components good
- beebeepka 3y ago
  A lot of that criticism was nonsense. People heavily invested in the old ways are resisting change. I am in the middle of a massive Vue 2.6 (yea, they didn't even try 2.7 because change is hard) to Vue 3 migration and most of my problems have nothing to do with Vue and everything to do with an army of very opinionated people making all the wrong choices in the name of conformity.
- _jesse 3y ago
  I think they realized that a large portion of their community would have just gone elsewhere if they didn't. I was not impressed with how they handled the initial criticism--after they backpedaled after realizing that deprecating basically the entire current api wasn't popular (surprising... lol), they then started saying they never intended to deprecate it. It was strange. I'm still not a huge fan of the composition api. It's like a weird version of React function components with different quirks. Maybe I just need to use them more and I'll eventually get it.

The problem with the criticism of any major effort of that sort (which you saw in python2->python3 as well), is that any major effort will involve tradeoffs, it will involve mistakes, it will involve bad decisions, and it will involve good decisions that were poorly executed. That’s absolutely normal. There is no major effort ever in the history of software that was absolutely perfect. But the most upvoted comments almost always tend to be focused on those specific mistakes/tradeoffs to the detriment of the larger goal and effort. They completely decontextualize the criticism from the fact that it may be a trade off or just a simple mistake. And honestly, if I was to submit my closed source project and saw those criticism, I wouldn’t like it, but I could at least understand it. But it must be ridiculously frustrating for Open Source software developers to have put in all this effort and then have everyone Monday morning QB on HN once the work has been largely completed when they could as easily have gone to the project GitHub or community pages and shared their feedback constructively when it actually mattered and could have had an impact on the direction of the product.

conradfr 3y ago

I don't follow the development closely so maybe you are right but in the end they kept both APIs and did a great job with the compatibility layer in 3.1 to help migrate from v2. I don't know many projects which would have done that.

dmix 3y ago
He addresses this in the interview: Evan: They’re like, “Oh, Vue has scalability issues. We have a huge Vue product. We have these huge components that nobody wants to touch anymore. We don’t know how to extract and reuse things. TypeScript support isn’t great.” Adam: So they started Vue 3, right? A breaking change. Vue had to stay relevant. People were looking for a scalable, if more complex, framework. Expectations had changed. Evan: They’re like, “Hey. You’re taking away the very reason we love Vue, and it’s not going to be Vue anymore.” In a way, our early user base are mostly people who preferred lightweight solutions, simple interactions, simple apps. So when we propose solutions to address these more advanced cases, these simple case users get pissed off because they’re like, “Don’t touch my framework. I don’t want to work that way.” “I don’t care about these complex cases. Why are you adding these complex APIs? Why are you making things more complicated?” But at the same time, these complex case users are like, “I won’t use Vue if it stays only for simple use cases because it shows it doesn’t scale. We are gonna just migrate to React, migrate to Angular.” [discussion continues for a while https://corecursive.com/vue-with-evan-you/#composition-api https://corecursive.com/vue-with-evan-you/#composition-api]
- satvikpendem 3y ago
  That is actually exactly why I migrated off Vue and onto React. I originally used Vue because React had some copyright issues that gave Facebook the right to revoke your license if you sued them, or something to that effect. But once they removed that and added hooks, and Vue was starting to move to the composition API, I thought, what the hell, I will just use the most popular option and switched to React, never looked back since. TypeScript support is awesome, there aren't any signals or two way data binding, and all of the most popular libraries are written for React while few are written for cross-framework compatibility.
- paradox460 3y ago
  In his defense, the new composition API is really good. At the level of react hooks vs class components good
beebeepka 3y ago
A lot of that criticism was nonsense. People heavily invested in the old ways are resisting change. I am in the middle of a massive Vue 2.6 (yea, they didn't even try 2.7 because change is hard) to Vue 3 migration and most of my problems have nothing to do with Vue and everything to do with an army of very opinionated people making all the wrong choices in the name of conformity.
_jesse 3y ago
I think they realized that a large portion of their community would have just gone elsewhere if they didn't. I was not impressed with how they handled the initial criticism--after they backpedaled after realizing that deprecating basically the entire current api wasn't popular (surprising... lol), they then started saying they never intended to deprecate it. It was strange. I'm still not a huge fan of the composition api. It's like a weird version of React function components with different quirks. Maybe I just need to use them more and I'll eventually get it.