4 ms·

Danish union joins strike action against Tesla by Swedish workers

32 points by belltaco 3y ago

jimrandomh 3y ago
It sounds like calling it a "strike" is kind of misleading, because the workers who are "striking" aren't Tesla employees, they're employers for _other organizations_ who are refusing to do their jobs (for those other organizations) in order to sabotage Tesla. I don't think there's a plausible claim, here, that these unions are acting in the best interests of Tesla's workers; rather, they're working to maximize the power of _the unions themselves_.
- madsbuch 3y ago
  I realize that this is an American site rooted in American culture, just like Elon himself. As a Danish person, most of Elon't claim sound ridiculous. He is basically saying, that because the American unions negotiate special elevators for senior staff then Scandinavian unions are an issue. I would recommend all Americans (and in particular Elon) to use this situation as an excuse to study the Scandinavian social model.
- CogitoCogito 3y ago
  Historically many unions striked in support of other unions. It's not something you really see in the US as far as I know, but the US is just one of many different economic and legal systems out there.
tuwtuwtuwtuw 3y ago
If Elon calls it insane then I'll support it.
- nielsbot 3y ago
  I'd like him to qualify "insane". What's insane about it?
  - TheCoelacanth 3y ago
    I find it insanely cool that Nordic workers have that level of solidarity and that capitalists haven't been able to legally hobble labor with absurd legal restrictions on the ability to strike like they have in most other countries.
  - belter 3y ago
    its "insane" people are actually demanding a fair share of the pie...
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      I read on HN a week or so ago that the majority of workers at the swedish Tesla factory aren't striking because they prefer the stock options offered by Tesla to what the union is offering. But apparently the company offering a more attractive deal than the union is considered "union busting" or something. Sweden sounds weird.
      - apelapan 3y ago
        The unions are not "offering" any alternative compensation to the workers, than what Tesla are. There are certain minimums in a collective bargaining agreement, with regard to salary and insurance cover, but as far as I know Tesla at least mostly meets that minimum standard. What conflict is mostly about, and which a large proportion of the workers don't care about (at Tesla and elsewhere for that matter) is a mutually binding framework for how terms of employment are negotiated. Tesla (obviously) prefer to retain the possibility to dictate all terms unilaterally, the unions want the worker collective to have a say and the possibility to negotiate. It is a very basic, classic and boring conflict in that sense. The Swedish model for labour relations is mostly working quite well, both now and for the past 100 years. It works well enough that 90+% of people have no idea about what it is the unions do. In order for the model to work it needs a large part of businesses/unions to participate. What we are seeing now is an interesting test of the conflict escalation toolbox. I'm not at all sure how it will end. If the unions fail, it might be the start of a general move to a US-style "everyone-fends-for-themselves" labour market, with minimum wages etc regulated by law. (Sweden does not have a minimum wage by law, for example).
- cbeach 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - nielsbot 3y ago
    There is nothing in the comment you replied to that is (necessarily) 1) unthinking 2) politically-motivated or 3) tribalism.
  - tuwtuwtuwtuw 3y ago
    I see a very large correlation between things Musk says and things I consider insane. Calling me unthinking and politically motivated because I default to assuming that what he says is insane is a bit insane. Elon doesn't really fit on the political scale here in Sweden, so bringing up politics is also a bit silly.

32 points by belltaco 3y ago

It sounds like calling it a "strike" is kind of misleading, because the workers who are "striking" aren't Tesla employees, they're employers for _other organizations_ who are refusing to do their jobs (for those other organizations) in order to sabotage Tesla. I don't think there's a plausible claim, here, that these unions are acting in the best interests of Tesla's workers; rather, they're working to maximize the power of _the unions themselves_.

madsbuch 3y ago
I realize that this is an American site rooted in American culture, just like Elon himself. As a Danish person, most of Elon't claim sound ridiculous. He is basically saying, that because the American unions negotiate special elevators for senior staff then Scandinavian unions are an issue. I would recommend all Americans (and in particular Elon) to use this situation as an excuse to study the Scandinavian social model.
CogitoCogito 3y ago
Historically many unions striked in support of other unions. It's not something you really see in the US as far as I know, but the US is just one of many different economic and legal systems out there.

tuwtuwtuwtuw 3y ago

If Elon calls it insane then I'll support it.

nielsbot 3y ago
I'd like him to qualify "insane". What's insane about it?
- TheCoelacanth 3y ago
  I find it insanely cool that Nordic workers have that level of solidarity and that capitalists haven't been able to legally hobble labor with absurd legal restrictions on the ability to strike like they have in most other countries.
- belter 3y ago
  its "insane" people are actually demanding a fair share of the pie...
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    I read on HN a week or so ago that the majority of workers at the swedish Tesla factory aren't striking because they prefer the stock options offered by Tesla to what the union is offering. But apparently the company offering a more attractive deal than the union is considered "union busting" or something. Sweden sounds weird.
    - apelapan 3y ago
      The unions are not "offering" any alternative compensation to the workers, than what Tesla are. There are certain minimums in a collective bargaining agreement, with regard to salary and insurance cover, but as far as I know Tesla at least mostly meets that minimum standard. What conflict is mostly about, and which a large proportion of the workers don't care about (at Tesla and elsewhere for that matter) is a mutually binding framework for how terms of employment are negotiated. Tesla (obviously) prefer to retain the possibility to dictate all terms unilaterally, the unions want the worker collective to have a say and the possibility to negotiate. It is a very basic, classic and boring conflict in that sense. The Swedish model for labour relations is mostly working quite well, both now and for the past 100 years. It works well enough that 90+% of people have no idea about what it is the unions do. In order for the model to work it needs a large part of businesses/unions to participate. What we are seeing now is an interesting test of the conflict escalation toolbox. I'm not at all sure how it will end. If the unions fail, it might be the start of a general move to a US-style "everyone-fends-for-themselves" labour market, with minimum wages etc regulated by law. (Sweden does not have a minimum wage by law, for example).
cbeach 3y ago
[flagged]
- nielsbot 3y ago
  There is nothing in the comment you replied to that is (necessarily) 1) unthinking 2) politically-motivated or 3) tribalism.
- tuwtuwtuwtuw 3y ago
  I see a very large correlation between things Musk says and things I consider insane. Calling me unthinking and politically motivated because I default to assuming that what he says is insane is a bit insane. Elon doesn't really fit on the political scale here in Sweden, so bringing up politics is also a bit silly.