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I never seriously considered using 23 and me. Not because of hackers, but rather what government would do with that information. I don't want to be responsible

I never seriously considered using 23 and me. Not because of hackers, but rather what government would do with that information. I don't want to be responsible for some random relative getting charged with a crime just because I was curious about my family tree.

knallfrosch 3y ago
If that's your only concern, you need to read up on something called "Nazis." Imagine what they would do with a database of genetic information.
- pfdietz 3y ago
  They'd populate the database by making participation compulsory.
- maximus-decimus 3y ago
  Imagine what a racist government would do if they were able to tell who's black! Sure, now they can start hating on people who have the gene that makes Cilantro taste like soap, but a lot of genetic things are already visible so I don't see this as being fundamentally different.
- ribosometronome 3y ago
  That Nazis could use something for truly evil purposes is hardly limited to this but, I think, the concern is. You can imagine nazis transporting Holocaust victims and soldiers by rail, because they did, but I’ve never heard anyone argue against adding more rail infrastructure because if Nazis take over they could use the rail infrastructure to enable genocide.
  - kzrdude 3y ago
    Both railways and population registries were blown up by anti-nazi sabotage and resistance groups during WWII. So place your data like your railways, where you can blow em up when circumstances necessitate it.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- dfxm12 3y ago
  Look at what they did without it. Godwin's Law aside, the point is, if a sufficiently powerful group is set on doing something, they'll do it. Such a group won't let "facts" or "accuracy" get in the way. Look at McCarthyism.
  - m_eiman 3y ago
    People bent on doing evil things are going to do evil things, but perhaps it's a good idea to not build systems that will let their evil be faster and more efficient.
    - kjkjadksj 3y ago
      I have yet to see how this allows them to move faster and be more efficient. People have this fear of some orwellian government killing or imprisoning with little regard for ethics or due process except they will stop all of that for careful analysis of DNA. Seems bizarre to me. Either you are getting screwed or you aren’t but this stuff makes no screwing possible that wasn’t already.
      - m_eiman 3y ago
        "careful analysis of DNA" No need for careful analysis, just force the company to give you a list of registered users matching some criteria. Your kill list is just a SQL query away. "makes no screwing possible that wasn’t already" Sure, but it makes it easier and faster to select targets for your screwing.
        kjkjadksj 3y ago
        Historically the people doing the screwing weren’t so concerned about precision. Imprecision lets you throw in political enemies who don’t fit the demographic you are directly targeting so its quite useful
ribosometronome 3y ago
Have they used these sorts of databases to charge things other than murder and rape? The cases I have seen solved by way of this technology, I would very much feel glad that something I did led to stopping someone doing seriously bad things.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- satellite2 3y ago
  You have no guarantee on the type of regime under which you will live in a few years nor on the rules it will enforce. Actually, democracies are perfect regimes for rapid rule change without requiring a regime change.
- ARandomerDude 3y ago
  If you give the government the power to act, it's only a matter of time until they exercise that power.
al_borland 3y ago
I’d really like my 23 and Me info, but I assumed it was only a matter of time before they were hacked or sold to an untrustworthy organization willing to sell out users to make a quick buck. If the test was done, the results were sent, and then my test data/info were destroyed on their end, or if I could do a home test where the data never left my home, then I’d do it. I struggle to understand why companies hold on to all this data. It is a huge liability. In this case, maybe it is so they can identify familial relationships, but is that feature worth the risk?
- flavius29663 3y ago
  > I struggle to understand why companies hold on to all this data To sell it, did you miss the news? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-30/23andme-will-give-gsk-access-to-consumer-dna-data https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-30/23andme-w...
- nyolfen 3y ago
  > If the test was done, the results were sent, and then my test data/info were destroyed on their end, they claim, at least, that this is the case if you delete your account; i got my results, downloaded my data and deleted my account years ago
whyenot 3y ago
Thanks to using 23 and Me. I found out that my dad was not actually my biological dad and that I have a half sister and a large extended family that I did not know existed. I'm fully aware of the privacy and PII concerns, but for me it was absolutely worth it, both to better understand who I am and to find a large group of relative who I never knew were there (and who have been incredibly welcoming to me). It's a trade-off.

knallfrosch 3y ago

If that's your only concern, you need to read up on something called "Nazis." Imagine what they would do with a database of genetic information.

pfdietz 3y ago
They'd populate the database by making participation compulsory.
maximus-decimus 3y ago
Imagine what a racist government would do if they were able to tell who's black! Sure, now they can start hating on people who have the gene that makes Cilantro taste like soap, but a lot of genetic things are already visible so I don't see this as being fundamentally different.
ribosometronome 3y ago
That Nazis could use something for truly evil purposes is hardly limited to this but, I think, the concern is. You can imagine nazis transporting Holocaust victims and soldiers by rail, because they did, but I’ve never heard anyone argue against adding more rail infrastructure because if Nazis take over they could use the rail infrastructure to enable genocide.
- kzrdude 3y ago
  Both railways and population registries were blown up by anti-nazi sabotage and resistance groups during WWII. So place your data like your railways, where you can blow em up when circumstances necessitate it.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
dfxm12 3y ago
Look at what they did without it. Godwin's Law aside, the point is, if a sufficiently powerful group is set on doing something, they'll do it. Such a group won't let "facts" or "accuracy" get in the way. Look at McCarthyism.
- m_eiman 3y ago
  People bent on doing evil things are going to do evil things, but perhaps it's a good idea to not build systems that will let their evil be faster and more efficient.
  - kjkjadksj 3y ago
    I have yet to see how this allows them to move faster and be more efficient. People have this fear of some orwellian government killing or imprisoning with little regard for ethics or due process except they will stop all of that for careful analysis of DNA. Seems bizarre to me. Either you are getting screwed or you aren’t but this stuff makes no screwing possible that wasn’t already.
    - m_eiman 3y ago
      "careful analysis of DNA" No need for careful analysis, just force the company to give you a list of registered users matching some criteria. Your kill list is just a SQL query away. "makes no screwing possible that wasn’t already" Sure, but it makes it easier and faster to select targets for your screwing.
      - kjkjadksj 3y ago
        Historically the people doing the screwing weren’t so concerned about precision. Imprecision lets you throw in political enemies who don’t fit the demographic you are directly targeting so its quite useful

ribosometronome 3y ago

Have they used these sorts of databases to charge things other than murder and rape? The cases I have seen solved by way of this technology, I would very much feel glad that something I did led to stopping someone doing seriously bad things.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
satellite2 3y ago
You have no guarantee on the type of regime under which you will live in a few years nor on the rules it will enforce. Actually, democracies are perfect regimes for rapid rule change without requiring a regime change.
ARandomerDude 3y ago
If you give the government the power to act, it's only a matter of time until they exercise that power.

al_borland 3y ago

I’d really like my 23 and Me info, but I assumed it was only a matter of time before they were hacked or sold to an untrustworthy organization willing to sell out users to make a quick buck. If the test was done, the results were sent, and then my test data/info were destroyed on their end, or if I could do a home test where the data never left my home, then I’d do it. I struggle to understand why companies hold on to all this data. It is a huge liability. In this case, maybe it is so they can identify familial relationships, but is that feature worth the risk?

flavius29663 3y ago
> I struggle to understand why companies hold on to all this data To sell it, did you miss the news? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-30/23andme-will-give-gsk-access-to-consumer-dna-data https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-30/23andme-w...
nyolfen 3y ago
> If the test was done, the results were sent, and then my test data/info were destroyed on their end, they claim, at least, that this is the case if you delete your account; i got my results, downloaded my data and deleted my account years ago

whyenot 3y ago

Thanks to using 23 and Me. I found out that my dad was not actually my biological dad and that I have a half sister and a large extended family that I did not know existed. I'm fully aware of the privacy and PII concerns, but for me it was absolutely worth it, both to better understand who I am and to find a large group of relative who I never knew were there (and who have been incredibly welcoming to me). It's a trade-off.