4 ms·

Operating systems, transit and cultural influences

50 points by edward 3y ago

gtroja 3y ago
"This made me realize how much cultural influence bleeds into the features that they provide." Every technology embeds ideas of the culture in which it was developed. For me the posts example is a mild classism.
mcooley 3y ago
Tracking flights works better than tracking trains mainly because airlines have global technical standards (coordinated through global bodies like IATA) and rail operators don't. Most of the technical capability to track any flight, anywhere in the world, was built by the airline industry for its own needs and integrated into consumer technology later; I don't think the cultural bias of OS vendors had much to do with it.
- wongarsu 3y ago
  Rail operators are also really good at tracking their trains. There are some issues because a) they started much earlier and have longer upgrade cycles, so in some places the tech is ancient; and b) there's less pressure to interoperate. That said, there is good data with standard APIs in some places, for example across most of the European rail network. I find it very plausible that a similarly funded company from Switzerland or Estonia would add rail information before they add flight information, and if they had come out with the equivalent of Apple/Google Wallet they might have started out with cooperation with rail services to store your rail ticket in your phone.
- aredox 3y ago
  The Swiss SBB has a public API for all trains across the European continent. Multiple websites making use of it have been featured on this very website. There is little excuse. There is, though, quite some lack of curiosity from young American males to anything outside their own little lives
  - asystole 3y ago
    Right, so that's one transit company in one country. The whole point is that global flight tracking data is standardised and easily machine-parsable.
    - izacus 3y ago
      European continent has more than 20 countries not one.
    - aredox 3y ago
      No, SBB has the unifying database for all trains across all of Europe. The job is already done. What does SBB or trainline.eu do that Google or Apple can't do? Or do you think Europe is one country?
  - cbm-vic-20 3y ago
    I've had success using the Transit app, which tracks trains and busses, even in the small US city I live in. And I'm certain there are at least a few people who are not "young American males" working for the companies that are mentioned in the article.
  - brightlancer 3y ago
    > There is, though, quite some lack of curiosity from young American males to anything outside their own little lives That's false, bigoted, and has no place in this conversation.
    - aredox 3y ago
      It's just true. Remember when Apple launched HealthKit with alcohol tracking and no period tracking? Tell me how that release could pass months of development and management without anyone thinking about it once. https://www.theverge.com/2014/9/25/6844021/apple-promised-an-expansive-health-app-so-why-cant-i-track https://www.theverge.com/2014/9/25/6844021/apple-promised-an...
      - 3y ago
- justsomehnguy 3y ago
  There are apps what allow you to monitor transit buses in the real time. They aren't built on 'bus industry' platform or whatever.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
shepherdjerred 3y ago
I think one part of this is that flying is a much bigger deal than other modes of transport. Many people hate flying and don't do it super often, so many of these features are designed to make the experience a bit easier. People who use public transit probably use it semi-regularly and thus know where to go for the necessary information. In summary, flights are done less often, making people less likely to have well established workflows. Public transit is done more frequently, so anyone who uses it probably already has some way to access the information that they need.
- bluGill 3y ago
  This is about longer distance trains not local public transit. That is trips between NYC and Chicago, which is something you can take via train but not a trip anyone would take very often. The problem with flying isn't so much that people hate it - some like it. However no matter how much you love flying, it is always at least 4 hours of your day to fly anywhere: you have to get to the airport, spend an hour in the airport, then you fly, which for a very short flight might be an hour, then you have to get out of the far airport to where you are going. That is the best case, often it is longer flights and a transfer in some other airport. If the US had a great intercity train system there are many trips that could be faster on trains - but we don't have a great system.
LargoLasskhyfv 3y ago
Yah, well... I'd say a phone from Huawai/HTC, and one of the chinese hyperapps which do everything in their ecosystem would be the 'better' option for that use-case. If 'we' hadn't booted them out. And if their 'ecosystem' would be interested in interfacing with 'our' services. That would be so metropian. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropia_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropia_(film) )

50 points by edward 3y ago

"This made me realize how much cultural influence bleeds into the features that they provide." Every technology embeds ideas of the culture in which it was developed. For me the posts example is a mild classism.

mcooley 3y ago

Tracking flights works better than tracking trains mainly because airlines have global technical standards (coordinated through global bodies like IATA) and rail operators don't. Most of the technical capability to track any flight, anywhere in the world, was built by the airline industry for its own needs and integrated into consumer technology later; I don't think the cultural bias of OS vendors had much to do with it.

wongarsu 3y ago
Rail operators are also really good at tracking their trains. There are some issues because a) they started much earlier and have longer upgrade cycles, so in some places the tech is ancient; and b) there's less pressure to interoperate. That said, there is good data with standard APIs in some places, for example across most of the European rail network. I find it very plausible that a similarly funded company from Switzerland or Estonia would add rail information before they add flight information, and if they had come out with the equivalent of Apple/Google Wallet they might have started out with cooperation with rail services to store your rail ticket in your phone.
aredox 3y ago
The Swiss SBB has a public API for all trains across the European continent. Multiple websites making use of it have been featured on this very website. There is little excuse. There is, though, quite some lack of curiosity from young American males to anything outside their own little lives
- asystole 3y ago
  Right, so that's one transit company in one country. The whole point is that global flight tracking data is standardised and easily machine-parsable.
  - izacus 3y ago
    European continent has more than 20 countries not one.
  - aredox 3y ago
    No, SBB has the unifying database for all trains across all of Europe. The job is already done. What does SBB or trainline.eu do that Google or Apple can't do? Or do you think Europe is one country?
- cbm-vic-20 3y ago
  I've had success using the Transit app, which tracks trains and busses, even in the small US city I live in. And I'm certain there are at least a few people who are not "young American males" working for the companies that are mentioned in the article.
- brightlancer 3y ago
  > There is, though, quite some lack of curiosity from young American males to anything outside their own little lives That's false, bigoted, and has no place in this conversation.
  - aredox 3y ago
    It's just true. Remember when Apple launched HealthKit with alcohol tracking and no period tracking? Tell me how that release could pass months of development and management without anyone thinking about it once. https://www.theverge.com/2014/9/25/6844021/apple-promised-an-expansive-health-app-so-why-cant-i-track https://www.theverge.com/2014/9/25/6844021/apple-promised-an...
    - 3y ago
justsomehnguy 3y ago
There are apps what allow you to monitor transit buses in the real time. They aren't built on 'bus industry' platform or whatever.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

shepherdjerred 3y ago

I think one part of this is that flying is a much bigger deal than other modes of transport. Many people hate flying and don't do it super often, so many of these features are designed to make the experience a bit easier. People who use public transit probably use it semi-regularly and thus know where to go for the necessary information. In summary, flights are done less often, making people less likely to have well established workflows. Public transit is done more frequently, so anyone who uses it probably already has some way to access the information that they need.

bluGill 3y ago
This is about longer distance trains not local public transit. That is trips between NYC and Chicago, which is something you can take via train but not a trip anyone would take very often. The problem with flying isn't so much that people hate it - some like it. However no matter how much you love flying, it is always at least 4 hours of your day to fly anywhere: you have to get to the airport, spend an hour in the airport, then you fly, which for a very short flight might be an hour, then you have to get out of the far airport to where you are going. That is the best case, often it is longer flights and a transfer in some other airport. If the US had a great intercity train system there are many trips that could be faster on trains - but we don't have a great system.

LargoLasskhyfv 3y ago

Yah, well... I'd say a phone from Huawai/HTC, and one of the chinese hyperapps which do everything in their ecosystem would be the 'better' option for that use-case. If 'we' hadn't booted them out. And if their 'ecosystem' would be interested in interfacing with 'our' services. That would be so metropian. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropia_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropia_(film) )