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What really interests me is "Are ToS changes absolutely binding?" I am also not a lawyer. But I think there are two types of changes to ToS. One is purely adm

What really interests me is "Are ToS changes absolutely binding?" I am also not a lawyer. But I think there are two types of changes to ToS. One is purely administrative. For example, they might change the methods available to reach for support. For example, they might say that you are no longer able to send a Fax to get support help. Or that their domain name changed. Second is something that changes the service that you are receiving. For example, when you have bought their product they said "we are offering free support for all owners or our doodad". But then one day they decide that support is now paid option for all existing customers. So the question is: can ToS changes that changes the service/product that you have already paid for binding without your consent? If they decide to introduce extra protection from class action, requirement for arbitrage, etc. is this just administrative or is it actually changing the service you are receiving by restricting your rights?

toyg 3y ago
It doesn't really matter in practice, because the discipline around contract law is (typically) based on reasonableness of terms - I can't sign TOS that say I'm a slave, nor will TOS apply if such a clause is introduced at a later stage. Regardless of whether terms are changed for administrative or product reasons, what matters is the reasonableness of terms imposed on the other party.
wongarsu 3y ago
Not just "are the changes binding" but also "are the changes relevant". The changes might be binding for future services, but previous services were provided under the old terms; so you can make an argument that any arbitration clause in the new terms doesn't apply to services rendered before the new terms took effect.
- stbenjam 3y ago
  Most terms of service include automatic acceptance of future changes, so if you continue to use the service the terms apply to the past too. “23andMe may make changes to the Terms at any time. If we make a material change to the Terms, we will notify you, such as by posting a notice on our website or sending a message to the email address associated with your account. By continuing to access or use the Services, you agree to be bound by the revised Terms.”

toyg 3y ago

It doesn't really matter in practice, because the discipline around contract law is (typically) based on reasonableness of terms - I can't sign TOS that say I'm a slave, nor will TOS apply if such a clause is introduced at a later stage. Regardless of whether terms are changed for administrative or product reasons, what matters is the reasonableness of terms imposed on the other party.

wongarsu 3y ago

Not just "are the changes binding" but also "are the changes relevant". The changes might be binding for future services, but previous services were provided under the old terms; so you can make an argument that any arbitration clause in the new terms doesn't apply to services rendered before the new terms took effect.

stbenjam 3y ago
Most terms of service include automatic acceptance of future changes, so if you continue to use the service the terms apply to the past too. “23andMe may make changes to the Terms at any time. If we make a material change to the Terms, we will notify you, such as by posting a notice on our website or sending a message to the email address associated with your account. By continuing to access or use the Services, you agree to be bound by the revised Terms.”