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> What infrastructure is lacking? Poland, Czechia and especially Romania are already quite big auto manufacturing hubs. There must be some reason Tesla decided

> What infrastructure is lacking? Poland, Czechia and especially Romania are already quite big auto manufacturing hubs. There must be some reason Tesla decided to build their massive factory in Germany?

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>There must be some reason Tesla decided to build their massive factory in Germany? The same reason cheaper cars are made in lower-cost countries and premium cars in high cost countries, and Tesla is still a premium car. Tesla went to Germany because it has the best infrastructure for automotive and they're making premium cars and can afford the higher costs of building in Germany as time to market was more important for them to gain market share than reducing costs. Cost reduction comes at a later stage. But that doesn't mean Eastern EU countries have bad infrastructure, otherwise nobody would build cars there. If we want EVs to get cheaper to rival those from China, then either those German workers will have to accept lower wages, or the EVs will have to be made in lower labor countries. There's no free lunch.
- ffgjgf1 3y ago
  > But that doesn't mean Eastern EU countries have bad infrastructure, otherwise nobody would build cars there. But we still agree that they have worse infrastructure and that lower labor costs and no pesky unions didn’t seem to offset that in Tesla’s case. > If we want EVs to get cheaper to rival those from China, Higher tariffs would also be a perfectly reasonable solution.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >But we still agree that they have worse infrastructure and that lower labor costs and no pesky unions didn’t seem to offset that in Tesla’s case. Because, like I already said, Tesla had to enter the EU swinging to quickly maximize market share. And since its vehicles are all premium anyway, it could afford the higher cost of German manufacturing, but as the EV race heats up in the future moving into the lower cost segment, I'll bet you factories in the East will happen otherwise you can't have cheap EVs. >Higher tariffs would also be a perfectly reasonable solution. Do you want an EV future or not? Because as long as EVs stay more expensive in the EU, the average joe will keep buying ICEs, and EU EV industry will fall behind the Chinese one anyway making them uncompetitive exports. The EU car makers need to haul ass on the EV side kicking and screaming otherwise tariffs won't save them forever from going bust. Sure, you can put tariffs on Chinese imports and tariffs already exist, but then the Chinese will do in the EU, what the Japanese did in the US: build local factories in low wage areas to build affordable cars, and still undercut the local competition.
    - ffgjgf1 3y ago
      > Do you want an EV future or not? Not at the cost of the European car industry. > Because as long as EVs stay more expensive in the EU, the average joe will keep buying ICEs Why would tariffs affect EV prices disproportionately more than that of ICE cars? > US: build local factories in low wage areas to build affordable cars, and still undercut the local competition. Which is IMHO probably thr best outcome. You’d have actual competition driving prices down but Chinese manufacturers wouldn’t have unfair advantages like when they are allowed to import cars from China. Also US has much higher tariffs than thE EU. So I don’t think they are necessarily hurting electrification that much.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

>There must be some reason Tesla decided to build their massive factory in Germany? The same reason cheaper cars are made in lower-cost countries and premium cars in high cost countries, and Tesla is still a premium car. Tesla went to Germany because it has the best infrastructure for automotive and they're making premium cars and can afford the higher costs of building in Germany as time to market was more important for them to gain market share than reducing costs. Cost reduction comes at a later stage. But that doesn't mean Eastern EU countries have bad infrastructure, otherwise nobody would build cars there. If we want EVs to get cheaper to rival those from China, then either those German workers will have to accept lower wages, or the EVs will have to be made in lower labor countries. There's no free lunch.

ffgjgf1 3y ago
> But that doesn't mean Eastern EU countries have bad infrastructure, otherwise nobody would build cars there. But we still agree that they have worse infrastructure and that lower labor costs and no pesky unions didn’t seem to offset that in Tesla’s case. > If we want EVs to get cheaper to rival those from China, Higher tariffs would also be a perfectly reasonable solution.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >But we still agree that they have worse infrastructure and that lower labor costs and no pesky unions didn’t seem to offset that in Tesla’s case. Because, like I already said, Tesla had to enter the EU swinging to quickly maximize market share. And since its vehicles are all premium anyway, it could afford the higher cost of German manufacturing, but as the EV race heats up in the future moving into the lower cost segment, I'll bet you factories in the East will happen otherwise you can't have cheap EVs. >Higher tariffs would also be a perfectly reasonable solution. Do you want an EV future or not? Because as long as EVs stay more expensive in the EU, the average joe will keep buying ICEs, and EU EV industry will fall behind the Chinese one anyway making them uncompetitive exports. The EU car makers need to haul ass on the EV side kicking and screaming otherwise tariffs won't save them forever from going bust. Sure, you can put tariffs on Chinese imports and tariffs already exist, but then the Chinese will do in the EU, what the Japanese did in the US: build local factories in low wage areas to build affordable cars, and still undercut the local competition.
  - ffgjgf1 3y ago
    > Do you want an EV future or not? Not at the cost of the European car industry. > Because as long as EVs stay more expensive in the EU, the average joe will keep buying ICEs Why would tariffs affect EV prices disproportionately more than that of ICE cars? > US: build local factories in low wage areas to build affordable cars, and still undercut the local competition. Which is IMHO probably thr best outcome. You’d have actual competition driving prices down but Chinese manufacturers wouldn’t have unfair advantages like when they are allowed to import cars from China. Also US has much higher tariffs than thE EU. So I don’t think they are necessarily hurting electrification that much.