3 ms·

Stealing? It's their shared East Slavic heritage.

k_bx 3y ago
I don't quite agree here, but what they do then is conflate words "Russian and Rusian" to mean the same thing, claiming for various stuff their population has no relation to. It's a dirty tactics very in-line with their today's propaganda machine.
- acadapter 3y ago
  I don't understand what's controversial about this. "Rus" is the medieval East Slavic society. Three of the four modern East Slavic cultures retain the word root in the name (Russians, Belarusians, Rusyns). One of them uses the expression "borderlands" for their identity (Ukrainians).
OfSanguineFire 3y ago
Indeed. “Rus” is an ethnonym, of famously Scandinavian origin, used across the entire East Slavic area and was never something limited to people in now-Ukraine that people in now-Russia could “steal”. The Uralic- and Turkic-speaking peoples of the Middle Volga, for example, already called the neighboring Slavic-speaking populations “Rus” in the medieval era.
- genman 3y ago
  Actually no. "Rus" was meant to describe "all" East Slavic people, but Russians took it for themselves "only" and started to call Ukrainians "Little Russians" in sense of "Lesser Russians".
  - acadapter 3y ago
    Belarusians also call themselves a variation of "rus", obviously. And "Little Russia" is an old name of a geographical region (which somewhat corresponds to the traditionally Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine).
    - genman 3y ago
      Old name with a very specific meaning. The therm "Little Rus" was first used for Kyiv in sense of it being the center of Rus - Rus proper and "Greater Rus" meant the wider area of their influence. Russians (as we know them today) managed to turn this around and made it a derogatory term.
  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    While what you say is true, it is irrelevant in the context of the discussion here about the popular misunderstanding of pierogi ruskie. This confusion is due to multiple factors than just “Russia stole”, including that the Ukrainian-language literary canon is centered around “Ukrainian” as the ethnonym, instead of making any attempt to preserve or revive the ethnonym “Rus”. While some Rusyns did maintain the ethnonym, other Rusyn speakers have preferred to identify with another ethnonym instead. If East Slavs other than Russians and Belarussians did not stand up for the ethnonym en masse, no surprise that peoples elsewhere no longer have the ability to distinguish.
    - genman 3y ago
      And there is reason why they focus on "Ukrainian" (borderland etymologically btw) instead of "Russian" or even "Little Russian". The therm "Little Rus" was first used for Kyiv in sense of it being the center of Rus - Rus proper and "Greater Rus" meant the wider area of their influence. Russians (as we know them today) managed to turn this around and made it a derogatory term. Even more - the "Rus" became first to mean "Slavic Orthodox faith follower" and it covered multiple nations, even non-Slavic ones. The fact that Russians call themselves now by this name is not an accident.
      - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
        Again, what you say is true, but irrelevant in the context of this discussion thread. You look like you are searching for reasons to get upset, and you ought to calm down, take a deep breath, and consider that some of your interlocutors here are not your enemies. You copy/pasted the same text in the reply to me as you did to another user in this thread. Please don’t do this, it is considered poor form on HN.
        genman 3y ago
        If anything then this personal attack is an example of poor quality. I'm far being upset. Maybe you are? My comments try to explain why Ukrainians believe that Russians have stolen the "Rus" identity (from them) only for themselves. While your comment is not entirely wrong, it is not precise enough to explain the whole story.
genman 3y ago
You then obviously don't know the history. One notable thing to mention is that Russia started as Principality of Moscow, a vassal state to Mongols, a collector of tribute for Mongols. Taking their own share from this tribute allowed them to prosper.

k_bx 3y ago

I don't quite agree here, but what they do then is conflate words "Russian and Rusian" to mean the same thing, claiming for various stuff their population has no relation to. It's a dirty tactics very in-line with their today's propaganda machine.

acadapter 3y ago
I don't understand what's controversial about this. "Rus" is the medieval East Slavic society. Three of the four modern East Slavic cultures retain the word root in the name (Russians, Belarusians, Rusyns). One of them uses the expression "borderlands" for their identity (Ukrainians).

OfSanguineFire 3y ago

Indeed. “Rus” is an ethnonym, of famously Scandinavian origin, used across the entire East Slavic area and was never something limited to people in now-Ukraine that people in now-Russia could “steal”. The Uralic- and Turkic-speaking peoples of the Middle Volga, for example, already called the neighboring Slavic-speaking populations “Rus” in the medieval era.

genman 3y ago
Actually no. "Rus" was meant to describe "all" East Slavic people, but Russians took it for themselves "only" and started to call Ukrainians "Little Russians" in sense of "Lesser Russians".
- acadapter 3y ago
  Belarusians also call themselves a variation of "rus", obviously. And "Little Russia" is an old name of a geographical region (which somewhat corresponds to the traditionally Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine).
  - genman 3y ago
    Old name with a very specific meaning. The therm "Little Rus" was first used for Kyiv in sense of it being the center of Rus - Rus proper and "Greater Rus" meant the wider area of their influence. Russians (as we know them today) managed to turn this around and made it a derogatory term.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  While what you say is true, it is irrelevant in the context of the discussion here about the popular misunderstanding of pierogi ruskie. This confusion is due to multiple factors than just “Russia stole”, including that the Ukrainian-language literary canon is centered around “Ukrainian” as the ethnonym, instead of making any attempt to preserve or revive the ethnonym “Rus”. While some Rusyns did maintain the ethnonym, other Rusyn speakers have preferred to identify with another ethnonym instead. If East Slavs other than Russians and Belarussians did not stand up for the ethnonym en masse, no surprise that peoples elsewhere no longer have the ability to distinguish.
  - genman 3y ago
    And there is reason why they focus on "Ukrainian" (borderland etymologically btw) instead of "Russian" or even "Little Russian". The therm "Little Rus" was first used for Kyiv in sense of it being the center of Rus - Rus proper and "Greater Rus" meant the wider area of their influence. Russians (as we know them today) managed to turn this around and made it a derogatory term. Even more - the "Rus" became first to mean "Slavic Orthodox faith follower" and it covered multiple nations, even non-Slavic ones. The fact that Russians call themselves now by this name is not an accident.
    - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
      Again, what you say is true, but irrelevant in the context of this discussion thread. You look like you are searching for reasons to get upset, and you ought to calm down, take a deep breath, and consider that some of your interlocutors here are not your enemies. You copy/pasted the same text in the reply to me as you did to another user in this thread. Please don’t do this, it is considered poor form on HN.
      - genman 3y ago
        If anything then this personal attack is an example of poor quality. I'm far being upset. Maybe you are? My comments try to explain why Ukrainians believe that Russians have stolen the "Rus" identity (from them) only for themselves. While your comment is not entirely wrong, it is not precise enough to explain the whole story.

genman 3y ago

You then obviously don't know the history. One notable thing to mention is that Russia started as Principality of Moscow, a vassal state to Mongols, a collector of tribute for Mongols. Taking their own share from this tribute allowed them to prosper.