5 ms·

Did kind of work in the cold war.

by RandomLensman 3y ago

seydor 3y ago
i m not sure the dutch would accept a US ban so easily during the cold war.
- RandomLensman 3y ago
  It was very strict what you could legally export (or even bring) to the USSR and Netherlands was part of CoCom.
- usrnm 3y ago
  The US already threatened to invade the Netherlands a few years ago, it worked like a charm. There isn't much the Dutch can do, when the US wants something from them
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > The US already threatened to invade the Netherlands a few years ago, it worked like a charm. It worked...at what, exactly? I mean, leaving aside whether what was in question was actually a threat, I don't see that it has had any substantive effect on the policy either of the Netherlands or of the particular international institution headquartered in The Hague that that was its subject, so I don't see how it can be described as working like a charm, except as a piece of US domestic propaganda (which was its real purpose, of course.)
  - b112 3y ago
    Provide solid links, when you make such clearly outrageous claims. No way the US threatened troops into the Netherlands, and the Dutch would have never capitulated. At all. All of Western Europe would join in. The best I can figure is the US threatened to extract someone in an op. That's not invasion, and even that seems hard to buy. So link please. And to a real news source, not some guy going on about it on tiktok or youtube, or a blog by a random person.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - usrnm 3y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Protection_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Pr...
      - b112 3y ago
        That's not threatening to invade. That's granting the US President powers to take acts, invasion being one of them, without congressional oversight. I'm a Canuck, but you need to call a thing what it is. For example, sanctions could be something done as part of this bill. Arresting a Dutch person on US soil. You may not like this bill, and I personally don't have much of an opinion on it, but it does not say "arrest and we will immediately invade and blow up cities and take control of your entire nation". It isn't even directed at the Netherlands directly, instead the court, wherever that may be now or in the future. Saying "The threatened to invade" is an effort to put the worst possible spin on it. And without context, it makes it sound like this happened 2 weeks ago, such as "The US moved a carrier group to the coast of the Netherlands, and they're threatening to invade!" The only way I would accept language like "threatened to invade" would be if it was actually threatened.
    - t324oi234j3434 3y ago
      https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/american-is-charged-with-a-war-crime-would-we-invade-the-netherlands/65-e0353dd2-487a-40bd-ad78-63cc655921cf https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/american-is-charge...
      - ben_w 3y ago
        """Access Denied You don't have permission to access "http://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/american-is-charged-with-a-war-crime-would-we-invade-the-netherlands/65-e0353dd2-487a-40bd-ad78-63cc655921cf http://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/american-is-charged..." on this server. Reference #18.4ff01602.1701774868.1c0af8dc""" (Why is it redirecting to http?)
  - jacooper 3y ago
    What ? When? Any sources?
    - Kbelicius 3y ago
      The Hague is in Netherlands and the US has threatened that it will invade if ever a US service member is brought to the international criminal court.[0] [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...
      - Turing_Machine 3y ago
        The fact that it is located in The Hague doesn't make the ICC "the Netherlands" any more than a drug cartel based in Miami is "the United States". It's not an entity of the Netherlands government in any respect. As far as the actual country of Netherlands goes, the United States and that country have a standard extradition treaty, as the US does with most countries that have a reasonable court system that protects the rights of the accused. The US views the ICC as an illegitimate kangaroo court that does not meet the minimum standards for such protection, and thus does not recognize it any more than it would recognize, say, a terrorist-run "Islamic court". If such "courts" grab US citizens and put them "on trial", then, yeah, they shouldn't be surprised when US Navy SEALs coming crashing through their windows. That wouldn't make it an "invasion" of the country where the "court" was located, but something more akin to a hostage rescue mission.
        dragonwriter 3y ago
        > The US views the ICC as an illegitimate kangaroo court that does not meet the minimum standards for such protection No, it doesn't, which is why it makes referrals to the ICC. The US just believes that the US, uniquely, should not be subject to any external accountability, because it uniquely can be trusted to hold its own war criminals accountable without such external fallback.
        Turing_Machine 3y ago

Did kind of work in the cold war.

seydor 3y ago

i m not sure the dutch would accept a US ban so easily during the cold war.

RandomLensman 3y ago
It was very strict what you could legally export (or even bring) to the USSR and Netherlands was part of CoCom.
usrnm 3y ago
The US already threatened to invade the Netherlands a few years ago, it worked like a charm. There isn't much the Dutch can do, when the US wants something from them
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > The US already threatened to invade the Netherlands a few years ago, it worked like a charm. It worked...at what, exactly? I mean, leaving aside whether what was in question was actually a threat, I don't see that it has had any substantive effect on the policy either of the Netherlands or of the particular international institution headquartered in The Hague that that was its subject, so I don't see how it can be described as working like a charm, except as a piece of US domestic propaganda (which was its real purpose, of course.)
- b112 3y ago
  Provide solid links, when you make such clearly outrageous claims. No way the US threatened troops into the Netherlands, and the Dutch would have never capitulated. At all. All of Western Europe would join in. The best I can figure is the US threatened to extract someone in an op. That's not invasion, and even that seems hard to buy. So link please. And to a real news source, not some guy going on about it on tiktok or youtube, or a blog by a random person.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - usrnm 3y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Protection_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Pr...
    - b112 3y ago
      That's not threatening to invade. That's granting the US President powers to take acts, invasion being one of them, without congressional oversight. I'm a Canuck, but you need to call a thing what it is. For example, sanctions could be something done as part of this bill. Arresting a Dutch person on US soil. You may not like this bill, and I personally don't have much of an opinion on it, but it does not say "arrest and we will immediately invade and blow up cities and take control of your entire nation". It isn't even directed at the Netherlands directly, instead the court, wherever that may be now or in the future. Saying "The threatened to invade" is an effort to put the worst possible spin on it. And without context, it makes it sound like this happened 2 weeks ago, such as "The US moved a carrier group to the coast of the Netherlands, and they're threatening to invade!" The only way I would accept language like "threatened to invade" would be if it was actually threatened.
  - t324oi234j3434 3y ago
    https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/american-is-charged-with-a-war-crime-would-we-invade-the-netherlands/65-e0353dd2-487a-40bd-ad78-63cc655921cf https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/american-is-charge...
    - ben_w 3y ago
      """Access Denied You don't have permission to access "http://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/american-is-charged-with-a-war-crime-would-we-invade-the-netherlands/65-e0353dd2-487a-40bd-ad78-63cc655921cf http://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/american-is-charged..." on this server. Reference #18.4ff01602.1701774868.1c0af8dc""" (Why is it redirecting to http?)
- jacooper 3y ago
  What ? When? Any sources?
  - Kbelicius 3y ago
    The Hague is in Netherlands and the US has threatened that it will invade if ever a US service member is brought to the international criminal court.[0] [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...
    - Turing_Machine 3y ago
      The fact that it is located in The Hague doesn't make the ICC "the Netherlands" any more than a drug cartel based in Miami is "the United States". It's not an entity of the Netherlands government in any respect. As far as the actual country of Netherlands goes, the United States and that country have a standard extradition treaty, as the US does with most countries that have a reasonable court system that protects the rights of the accused. The US views the ICC as an illegitimate kangaroo court that does not meet the minimum standards for such protection, and thus does not recognize it any more than it would recognize, say, a terrorist-run "Islamic court". If such "courts" grab US citizens and put them "on trial", then, yeah, they shouldn't be surprised when US Navy SEALs coming crashing through their windows. That wouldn't make it an "invasion" of the country where the "court" was located, but something more akin to a hostage rescue mission.
      - dragonwriter 3y ago
        > The US views the ICC as an illegitimate kangaroo court that does not meet the minimum standards for such protection No, it doesn't, which is why it makes referrals to the ICC. The US just believes that the US, uniquely, should not be subject to any external accountability, because it uniquely can be trusted to hold its own war criminals accountable without such external fallback.
        Turing_Machine 3y ago