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Not only that. Tesla's are typical American products. If you look at the electrical use of cars Tesla's are the most power hungry electric cars there are. Up un

Not only that. Tesla's are typical American products. If you look at the electrical use of cars Tesla's are the most power hungry electric cars there are. Up until the Tesla 3 all other electrical cars where more efficient. See: https://ev-database.org/compare/efficiency-electric-vehicle-most-efficient#sort:path~type~order=.efficiency~number~asc|range-slider-range:prev~next=0~1200|range-slider-acceleration:prev~next=2~23|range-slider-topspeed:prev~next=110~350|range-slider-battery:prev~next=10~200|range-slider-towweight:prev~next=0~2500|range-slider-fastcharge:prev~next=0~1500|paging:currentPage=0|paging:number=9 https://ev-database.org/compare/efficiency-electric-vehicle-...

MaKey 3y ago
In other words: The Tesla Model 3 seems to be the most efficient regular electrical car currently available.
heroiccocoa 3y ago
Is there actually a meaningful difference between EV efficiency worth considering though? In contrast to ICEs, most electric motors are already very efficient and the difference comes down to design choices like power and weight (range), and air/rolling resistance, not wasteful inefficiency[1]. Most Teslas have very decent drag coefficients https://www.myevreview.com/comparison-chart/drag-coefficient https://www.myevreview.com/comparison-chart/drag-coefficient. [1] Of course there is a semantic issue at play here as well: efficiency referring to both range/energy as well as power out/power in, and whether anyone actually has the right to drive a 845 hp cybertruck around in the midst of a climate crisis and global mass extinction when ~100 bhp ought to be enough for almost all commuting/leisure use.
- vlovich123 3y ago
  So unless you live in France or Sweden or some other country that had minimal fossil fuels in the energy mix for the grid, your EV is likely still essentially burning fossil fuels to get around (just burning it 10-20% more efficiently by way of a centralized plant).
  - mcv 3y ago
    Do you have a source for the 10-20%? ICEs are incredibly inefficient, and I wouldn't be surprised if the grid was twice as efficient, although I too have no source to back it up.
    - vlovich123 3y ago
      > The total WTW efficiency of gasoline ICEV ranges between 11-27 %, > diesel ICEV ranges from 25 % to 37 % > The EV fed by a natural gas power plant shows the highest WTW efficiency which ranges from 13 % to 31 % > While the EV supplied by coal-fired and diesel power plants have approximately the same WTW efficiency ranging between 13 % to 27 % and 12 % to 25 %, respectively https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2020SJRUE..24..669A/abstract https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2020SJRUE..24..669A/abstra...
  - theshrike79 3y ago
    It's not the efficiency of fossil fuel plants, it's this: What do you think is easier: a) Regulate the half-dozen coal plants in the country to clean up their shit and install scrubbers or b) Somehow force 100k already sold ICE vehicles to install aftermarket pollution reduction doodads _This_ is why EVs are better in the long run, as the grid moves to cleaner production, every single EV in use becomes more environmentally friendly at the same time.
    - vlovich123 3y ago
      I don’t disagree that it is better and easier to make cleaner coal plants en masse to reduce pollution. But you do get how that “clean coal” is mostly marketing and also has nothing to do with how much carbon is put into the air? My point is not “we shouldn’t do evs” and more we are taking too long to electrify cars and this leaves out trucks, ships, and most trains (at least in the US). But that lack of electrification is outmatched by our inability to decarbonize the energy grid worldwide - with the decrease of % energy nuclear, it’s been met with increase in natural gas despite massive spikes in wind and solar. Additionally, since energy demands grow every year (eg electric cars now demand electricity from the grid) total energy is growing which means that despite increasing solar and wind, fossil fuel production has gained market share and total fossil fuel production has also grown. In no way is our grid energy production on a positive direction to becoming decarbonized.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  Efficiency is very important in electric cars, since it is directly related to the two main metrics that consumers appear to consider when buying an EV: cost and range. A more efficient car gets a higher range for the same battery cost or a cheaper battery with the same range. And it compounds: a smaller battery reduces weight, getting back some of the range lost by the smaller battery.
mft_ 3y ago
Objectively, I don't think the link you provided backs up your position. Filter by market segment, and... Segment D (large), a class with 36 entries (albeit with some apparent duplications): - Model 3 is the most efficient, and the Model 3 long range is the joint third-most efficient - Model Y is the seventh-most efficient, and subjectively the most efficient 'SUV-shaped' (i.e. higher roof, less aero) in the class. The MY LR is ~13th most efficient. Segment F (luxury), a class with 60 entries (albeit with some apparent duplications): - Model S is 3rd (dual motor) and 6th (Plaid) most efficient - Model X is mid-pack, but again subjectively the most efficient large 'SUV-shaped' car in the class. I'd also add that while I don't follow the EV space closely, a good proportion of Tesla's frequent car updates are focussed on improving efficieny - aero, heat-pumps, etc.
- ivolimmen 3y ago
  When I last looked (over a year ago) when I was looking to buy/lease an electric car I was comparing cars and Tesla WAS the worst option at that moment and the Hyundai IONIC was the most efficient one; but I can not find the original source. BTW I had to settle on a gasoline power car as I do not have the money for an electric car.

MaKey 3y ago

In other words: The Tesla Model 3 seems to be the most efficient regular electrical car currently available.

heroiccocoa 3y ago

Is there actually a meaningful difference between EV efficiency worth considering though? In contrast to ICEs, most electric motors are already very efficient and the difference comes down to design choices like power and weight (range), and air/rolling resistance, not wasteful inefficiency[1]. Most Teslas have very decent drag coefficients https://www.myevreview.com/comparison-chart/drag-coefficient https://www.myevreview.com/comparison-chart/drag-coefficient. [1] Of course there is a semantic issue at play here as well: efficiency referring to both range/energy as well as power out/power in, and whether anyone actually has the right to drive a 845 hp cybertruck around in the midst of a climate crisis and global mass extinction when ~100 bhp ought to be enough for almost all commuting/leisure use.

vlovich123 3y ago
So unless you live in France or Sweden or some other country that had minimal fossil fuels in the energy mix for the grid, your EV is likely still essentially burning fossil fuels to get around (just burning it 10-20% more efficiently by way of a centralized plant).
- mcv 3y ago
  Do you have a source for the 10-20%? ICEs are incredibly inefficient, and I wouldn't be surprised if the grid was twice as efficient, although I too have no source to back it up.
  - vlovich123 3y ago
    > The total WTW efficiency of gasoline ICEV ranges between 11-27 %, > diesel ICEV ranges from 25 % to 37 % > The EV fed by a natural gas power plant shows the highest WTW efficiency which ranges from 13 % to 31 % > While the EV supplied by coal-fired and diesel power plants have approximately the same WTW efficiency ranging between 13 % to 27 % and 12 % to 25 %, respectively https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2020SJRUE..24..669A/abstract https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2020SJRUE..24..669A/abstra...
- theshrike79 3y ago
  It's not the efficiency of fossil fuel plants, it's this: What do you think is easier: a) Regulate the half-dozen coal plants in the country to clean up their shit and install scrubbers or b) Somehow force 100k already sold ICE vehicles to install aftermarket pollution reduction doodads _This_ is why EVs are better in the long run, as the grid moves to cleaner production, every single EV in use becomes more environmentally friendly at the same time.
  - vlovich123 3y ago
    I don’t disagree that it is better and easier to make cleaner coal plants en masse to reduce pollution. But you do get how that “clean coal” is mostly marketing and also has nothing to do with how much carbon is put into the air? My point is not “we shouldn’t do evs” and more we are taking too long to electrify cars and this leaves out trucks, ships, and most trains (at least in the US). But that lack of electrification is outmatched by our inability to decarbonize the energy grid worldwide - with the decrease of % energy nuclear, it’s been met with increase in natural gas despite massive spikes in wind and solar. Additionally, since energy demands grow every year (eg electric cars now demand electricity from the grid) total energy is growing which means that despite increasing solar and wind, fossil fuel production has gained market share and total fossil fuel production has also grown. In no way is our grid energy production on a positive direction to becoming decarbonized.
bryanlarsen 3y ago
Efficiency is very important in electric cars, since it is directly related to the two main metrics that consumers appear to consider when buying an EV: cost and range. A more efficient car gets a higher range for the same battery cost or a cheaper battery with the same range. And it compounds: a smaller battery reduces weight, getting back some of the range lost by the smaller battery.

mft_ 3y ago

Objectively, I don't think the link you provided backs up your position. Filter by market segment, and... Segment D (large), a class with 36 entries (albeit with some apparent duplications): - Model 3 is the most efficient, and the Model 3 long range is the joint third-most efficient - Model Y is the seventh-most efficient, and subjectively the most efficient 'SUV-shaped' (i.e. higher roof, less aero) in the class. The MY LR is ~13th most efficient. Segment F (luxury), a class with 60 entries (albeit with some apparent duplications): - Model S is 3rd (dual motor) and 6th (Plaid) most efficient - Model X is mid-pack, but again subjectively the most efficient large 'SUV-shaped' car in the class. I'd also add that while I don't follow the EV space closely, a good proportion of Tesla's frequent car updates are focussed on improving efficieny - aero, heat-pumps, etc.

ivolimmen 3y ago
When I last looked (over a year ago) when I was looking to buy/lease an electric car I was comparing cars and Tesla WAS the worst option at that moment and the Hyundai IONIC was the most efficient one; but I can not find the original source. BTW I had to settle on a gasoline power car as I do not have the money for an electric car.