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You are literally making up numbers (Edit: facts) to fit your narrative on Musk. Well done. Teslas are doing just fine in Europe: https://www.goodcarbadcar.ne

by zpeti 3y ago

You are literally making up numbers (Edit: facts) to fit your narrative on Musk. Well done. Teslas are doing just fine in Europe: https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/tesla-europe-sales-figures/ https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/tesla-europe-sales-figures/ Almost no-one I know cares about what Musk says on twitter, they just want an good electric car, and they buy them. The Model Y is the top selling car in europe. https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/tesla-model-y-likely-to-be-europe-s-best-selling-car-in-2023 https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/tesla-model-y-likely-to-be-... Please - at least look up figures before posting stuff like this. Edit: it’s amazing I’m getting downvoted on HN which is supposedly a scientific community. The person I was replying to made claims which were wrong which I point out with numbers. Yet people are so obsessed with hating musk they downvote me.

tobr 3y ago
No numbers were mentioned in the comment you are replying to.
ffgjgf1 3y ago
> The Model Y is the top selling car in europe. Comparing model sales doesn’t make a lot sense. Tesla only offers 2 different models in the 40-60k range. Now look at VW and then add very similar cars from Skoda, Audi and Cupra. Of course your’e still right Tesla’s market share in Europe has only been growing over the last couple of years.
- peebeebee 3y ago
  Tesla model Y is selling like cakes here in Belgium. Lots of electric cars have waiting lists that can easily be a few months. Tesla has no problems here. Ordered mine, got it one week later. Tesla Model Y is also still the one of the best in terms of price vs value. Imho the only real competitors are the Kia EV6 and Hyundai Ioniq 5 at the moment, but the model Y has them beaten in numbers on almost every front.
  - willvarfar 3y ago
    (happy EV6 owner; would recommend :) )
    - kyriakos 3y ago
      Happy ioniq 5 owner. Recommended.
gafage 3y ago
Reminds me of how overstated the volkswagen emissions scandal is here in HN. In real life no one gives a shit.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Probably because IRL, people have their own burdens to worry about like their families, careers and paying the bills. Going after a trillion dollar corporation slowly killing them with invisible particles is not first on their agenda but delegate it to the states to handle as that's their responsibility because that's why they pay taxes. The states which don't really do much against major corporations of that size but slap them of the wrist.
- peebeebee 3y ago
  I do. I will be a lot more hesitant buying a 'green' vehicle from a company that 1) did not give a damn about switching to electric before Elon transformed the industry. 2) even lied about the pollution they created. Consumers wanted electric cars a long time ago, those old-timers just denied us because it would've hurt their short-term profits.
  - rsynnott 3y ago
    ... Eh? The first eGolf (ignoring weirdo historical electric Golf variants; VW has occasionally dabbled since the 70s) was delivered a year before the first Tesla S, though for a pilot scheme in California; they didn't hit normal retail til a year or so after. The eUp came out in the same timeframe. Commercial deliveries of Tesla Ses, eUps, and eGolfs all started within a couple of months of each other. By the time Tesla got around to launching an electric car that didn't cost like 100,000 EUR, VW had been making such cars for years. I think VW maybe made a marketing mistake by making the eGolf and eUp so... non-obvious (there was really almost no way to tell they weren't a normal Golf/Up from the outside); it lead people to believe that the ID.3/4/5 were their first electric cars.
eddtries 3y ago
Fwiw in Sweden I get a company car and was considering Tesla but this Union issue has meant I no longer trust the level of service I will get long term & probably will get a Polestar instead. It is having some effect because, in my opinion, he is likely to decide to just up and leave one day and I’ll have a non-serviceable car. There’s not many automotive CEOs, if any, where that’s a consideration for me apart from Tesla and it does stem from his Twitter persona & rash decisions/going back on things a lot.
- nvm0n2 3y ago
  How does it stem from his persona, and not your countries unions? Unions can break whole industries if they're allowed to, and have done many times in the past. It's not a threat unique to Tesla.
  - eddtries 3y ago
    Can you think of a single time this has happened though? Unions are great in Sweden, totally unlike those in the US. They're basically different organisations entirely. You have three options: 1) government legislates everything tightly, 2) small government & pro-company, 3) small government & pro-employee. Simply put Sweden is 3, 1 is basically off the tables here, and 2 is against the Scandinavian culture.
- contrarian1234 3y ago
  Person posts data and facts and you respond with an anecdote
  - eddtries 3y ago
    Which is why I used terms like "in my opinion". Data is great but slow and I know my feelings are reciprocated by many others. Give it a year and see if current sentiment affects the stats as this is an ongoing issue while the data is over a year old. Either Tesla folds OR sales drop because you can't service your car. This isn't rocket science, but unless you have sales data for the last month there's not much to really debate with beyond anecdotes.
IndrekR 3y ago
Single data point, but early 2022 I got IONIQ5 instead of Model Y due to Musk's public comments. 70'000km later am still happy about it.
- fransje26 3y ago
  The Ioniq5 caught my eye too recently! Would you care to share the downsides you experienced so far?
  - IndrekR 3y ago
    My main complain this season is that driver seat warming/steering wheel warming can not be controlled from a physical button or via API/app (today it was -15°C here). In cold weather, the rapid charging speed could be better, I heard that this has improved on newer models that also have larger battery. Real range is around 300km when it is below freezing and 480km during summer. https://www.ioniqforum.com/ https://www.ioniqforum.com/ Is good place to get feedback from other users. As this is HN, then I also have to mention that Hyundai API (bluelink) has limits on how many queries you can do in a 24h rolling window. 20 or 50 queries, depending on the type…
lispm 3y ago
Some fleets are reducing Tesla: https://www.golem.de/news/restwert-problematik-sixt-draengt-tesla-aus-der-flotte-2312-179975.html https://www.golem.de/news/restwert-problematik-sixt-draengt-... Problems: remaining car value is too low after use, very high maintenance costs.
- peebeebee 3y ago
  As stated in the article: because they bought the vehicles, and Tesla had serious price reductions in the last years. That's net positive for almost all private persons, right? But not for companies that try to write off vehicles after 2 or 3 years (because of stupid tax incentives). In Belgium the whole 'premium' market is tax incentivised. If you want to drive high-end fashionable cars, go ahead, but that cost should not go to the taxpayer, and those companies should not be profiting of it.
  - lispm 3y ago
    > That's net positive for almost all private persons, right? If one buys an expensive premium car and has lost resale value fast, that's probably not positive for anyone who buys a car.

by zpeti 3y ago

tobr 3y ago

No numbers were mentioned in the comment you are replying to.

ffgjgf1 3y ago

> The Model Y is the top selling car in europe. Comparing model sales doesn’t make a lot sense. Tesla only offers 2 different models in the 40-60k range. Now look at VW and then add very similar cars from Skoda, Audi and Cupra. Of course your’e still right Tesla’s market share in Europe has only been growing over the last couple of years.

peebeebee 3y ago
Tesla model Y is selling like cakes here in Belgium. Lots of electric cars have waiting lists that can easily be a few months. Tesla has no problems here. Ordered mine, got it one week later. Tesla Model Y is also still the one of the best in terms of price vs value. Imho the only real competitors are the Kia EV6 and Hyundai Ioniq 5 at the moment, but the model Y has them beaten in numbers on almost every front.
- willvarfar 3y ago
  (happy EV6 owner; would recommend :) )
  - kyriakos 3y ago
    Happy ioniq 5 owner. Recommended.

gafage 3y ago

Reminds me of how overstated the volkswagen emissions scandal is here in HN. In real life no one gives a shit.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Probably because IRL, people have their own burdens to worry about like their families, careers and paying the bills. Going after a trillion dollar corporation slowly killing them with invisible particles is not first on their agenda but delegate it to the states to handle as that's their responsibility because that's why they pay taxes. The states which don't really do much against major corporations of that size but slap them of the wrist.
peebeebee 3y ago
I do. I will be a lot more hesitant buying a 'green' vehicle from a company that 1) did not give a damn about switching to electric before Elon transformed the industry. 2) even lied about the pollution they created. Consumers wanted electric cars a long time ago, those old-timers just denied us because it would've hurt their short-term profits.
- rsynnott 3y ago
  ... Eh? The first eGolf (ignoring weirdo historical electric Golf variants; VW has occasionally dabbled since the 70s) was delivered a year before the first Tesla S, though for a pilot scheme in California; they didn't hit normal retail til a year or so after. The eUp came out in the same timeframe. Commercial deliveries of Tesla Ses, eUps, and eGolfs all started within a couple of months of each other. By the time Tesla got around to launching an electric car that didn't cost like 100,000 EUR, VW had been making such cars for years. I think VW maybe made a marketing mistake by making the eGolf and eUp so... non-obvious (there was really almost no way to tell they weren't a normal Golf/Up from the outside); it lead people to believe that the ID.3/4/5 were their first electric cars.

eddtries 3y ago

Fwiw in Sweden I get a company car and was considering Tesla but this Union issue has meant I no longer trust the level of service I will get long term & probably will get a Polestar instead. It is having some effect because, in my opinion, he is likely to decide to just up and leave one day and I’ll have a non-serviceable car. There’s not many automotive CEOs, if any, where that’s a consideration for me apart from Tesla and it does stem from his Twitter persona & rash decisions/going back on things a lot.

nvm0n2 3y ago
How does it stem from his persona, and not your countries unions? Unions can break whole industries if they're allowed to, and have done many times in the past. It's not a threat unique to Tesla.
- eddtries 3y ago
  Can you think of a single time this has happened though? Unions are great in Sweden, totally unlike those in the US. They're basically different organisations entirely. You have three options: 1) government legislates everything tightly, 2) small government & pro-company, 3) small government & pro-employee. Simply put Sweden is 3, 1 is basically off the tables here, and 2 is against the Scandinavian culture.
contrarian1234 3y ago
Person posts data and facts and you respond with an anecdote
- eddtries 3y ago
  Which is why I used terms like "in my opinion". Data is great but slow and I know my feelings are reciprocated by many others. Give it a year and see if current sentiment affects the stats as this is an ongoing issue while the data is over a year old. Either Tesla folds OR sales drop because you can't service your car. This isn't rocket science, but unless you have sales data for the last month there's not much to really debate with beyond anecdotes.

IndrekR 3y ago

Single data point, but early 2022 I got IONIQ5 instead of Model Y due to Musk's public comments. 70'000km later am still happy about it.

fransje26 3y ago
The Ioniq5 caught my eye too recently! Would you care to share the downsides you experienced so far?
- IndrekR 3y ago
  My main complain this season is that driver seat warming/steering wheel warming can not be controlled from a physical button or via API/app (today it was -15°C here). In cold weather, the rapid charging speed could be better, I heard that this has improved on newer models that also have larger battery. Real range is around 300km when it is below freezing and 480km during summer. https://www.ioniqforum.com/ https://www.ioniqforum.com/ Is good place to get feedback from other users. As this is HN, then I also have to mention that Hyundai API (bluelink) has limits on how many queries you can do in a 24h rolling window. 20 or 50 queries, depending on the type…

lispm 3y ago

Some fleets are reducing Tesla: https://www.golem.de/news/restwert-problematik-sixt-draengt-tesla-aus-der-flotte-2312-179975.html https://www.golem.de/news/restwert-problematik-sixt-draengt-... Problems: remaining car value is too low after use, very high maintenance costs.

peebeebee 3y ago
As stated in the article: because they bought the vehicles, and Tesla had serious price reductions in the last years. That's net positive for almost all private persons, right? But not for companies that try to write off vehicles after 2 or 3 years (because of stupid tax incentives). In Belgium the whole 'premium' market is tax incentivised. If you want to drive high-end fashionable cars, go ahead, but that cost should not go to the taxpayer, and those companies should not be profiting of it.
- lispm 3y ago
  > That's net positive for almost all private persons, right? If one buys an expensive premium car and has lost resale value fast, that's probably not positive for anyone who buys a car.