4 ms·

Unions in the rest of the UE aren't as strong or influential as those in Sweden. Maybe France.

by FirmwareBurner 3y ago

tacker2000 3y ago
Austria has pretty strong unions.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  That doesn't mean Austrian Tesla workers are also unionized in a worker's council. Union busting is quite popular in Austria even by Austrian companies. Check out Anton Paar. You propose unionization there, you get fired on the spot since Austria is basically at-will employment for non-unionized workers. The Metal union is the only union with fangs in Austria, the rest are just paper tigers. And a solidarity strike in Austria, like in Sweden, would be incredibly unlikely as I don't think there's the legal framework for that in Austria, and in general, striking is not really part Austrian labor culture but more like bending over to wealthy industrialists donors to the conservative OVP party, which is why I put my money on France.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Unions in the rest of the UE aren't as strong or influential as those in Sweden No, but there's a unique alignment between labor (which is popular with voters) and industry (which fears Tesla) that could create real political momentum. This is a dumb alignment to force. Tesla is doing it.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  > This is a dumb alignment to force, and Tesla is doing is needlessly. They might be worried that if they go down this route then they get set on a path to become their outdated competitors.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > might be worried that if they go down this route then they get set on a path to become their outdated competitors They petrified when they became inflexible. Adaptability, not orthodoxy, is how challengers win. To be clear, I don't think we'll see some pan-European labour movement against Tesla. But I do think it's becoming increasingly lucrative to take pot shots at the firm. If that starts happening in EU capitals, that's twenty-eight needless distractions to dispatch.
    - ffgjgf1 3y ago
      Tesla could always shift most of their production to the ex-“socialist” Eastern/Central European which don’t have strong labor movements and lower wages (of course lacking infrastructure would make it harder).
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Tesla could always shift most of their production to the ex-“socialist” Eastern/Central European which don’t have strong labor movements and lower wages This might be the one move stupider than starting this fight, an innovator's dilemma [1] own goal. The Nordics are a high-income EV beachhead. Tesla has best-selling cars. This entire fight is currently intrigue. The risk is it metastasising into a political crisis. What makes that crisis a crisis is it threatens those sales. Decamping--in effect, surrendering--positively nukes them. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Innovator's_Dilemma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Innovator's_Dilemma
        fodkodrasz 3y ago
        It it were about manufacturing, then moving that to CEE would still make sense, as cars are high margin expensive items that some inland (train) freight in the continent is probably economical. Cars are even shipped over the ocean. In Hungary when driving along the Budapest-Wien railway I can often see trains full of cars on some stations waiting for their timeslot (passenger trains have priority over freight in Europe).
- topper-123 3y ago
  I agree. In general, european companies accepts unions, but in return requires its competitors are also be unionized. Tesla not being unionized is a problem for european car manufactorers as Tesla will have lower costs/more flexible work force. Anyone know if the german Tesla factory is unionized?
  - h4kor 3y ago
    Not yet unionized, but IG Metall is making progress. They have representation in the factory and there recently was an action where thousands of workers wore union pins.
    - SiempreViernes 3y ago
      With Tesla having a blanket global ban on allowing unions coming straight from the top, I think IG Metall is just deluding themselves if they think they make progress. Considering IF Metall started the current strike after trying to get deal signed for six years, I guess IG Metall will be still reporting "progress" out to 2030...
  - lispm 3y ago
    It has a works council: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_council https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_council Next year there are new elections for it.
fransje26 3y ago
I would not rule out Germany..

Unions in the rest of the UE aren't as strong or influential as those in Sweden. Maybe France.

tacker2000 3y ago

Austria has pretty strong unions.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
That doesn't mean Austrian Tesla workers are also unionized in a worker's council. Union busting is quite popular in Austria even by Austrian companies. Check out Anton Paar. You propose unionization there, you get fired on the spot since Austria is basically at-will employment for non-unionized workers. The Metal union is the only union with fangs in Austria, the rest are just paper tigers. And a solidarity strike in Austria, like in Sweden, would be incredibly unlikely as I don't think there's the legal framework for that in Austria, and in general, striking is not really part Austrian labor culture but more like bending over to wealthy industrialists donors to the conservative OVP party, which is why I put my money on France.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> Unions in the rest of the UE aren't as strong or influential as those in Sweden No, but there's a unique alignment between labor (which is popular with voters) and industry (which fears Tesla) that could create real political momentum. This is a dumb alignment to force. Tesla is doing it.

robertlagrant 3y ago
> This is a dumb alignment to force, and Tesla is doing is needlessly. They might be worried that if they go down this route then they get set on a path to become their outdated competitors.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > might be worried that if they go down this route then they get set on a path to become their outdated competitors They petrified when they became inflexible. Adaptability, not orthodoxy, is how challengers win. To be clear, I don't think we'll see some pan-European labour movement against Tesla. But I do think it's becoming increasingly lucrative to take pot shots at the firm. If that starts happening in EU capitals, that's twenty-eight needless distractions to dispatch.
  - ffgjgf1 3y ago
    Tesla could always shift most of their production to the ex-“socialist” Eastern/Central European which don’t have strong labor movements and lower wages (of course lacking infrastructure would make it harder).
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > Tesla could always shift most of their production to the ex-“socialist” Eastern/Central European which don’t have strong labor movements and lower wages This might be the one move stupider than starting this fight, an innovator's dilemma [1] own goal. The Nordics are a high-income EV beachhead. Tesla has best-selling cars. This entire fight is currently intrigue. The risk is it metastasising into a political crisis. What makes that crisis a crisis is it threatens those sales. Decamping--in effect, surrendering--positively nukes them. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Innovator's_Dilemma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Innovator's_Dilemma
      - fodkodrasz 3y ago
        It it were about manufacturing, then moving that to CEE would still make sense, as cars are high margin expensive items that some inland (train) freight in the continent is probably economical. Cars are even shipped over the ocean. In Hungary when driving along the Budapest-Wien railway I can often see trains full of cars on some stations waiting for their timeslot (passenger trains have priority over freight in Europe).
topper-123 3y ago
I agree. In general, european companies accepts unions, but in return requires its competitors are also be unionized. Tesla not being unionized is a problem for european car manufactorers as Tesla will have lower costs/more flexible work force. Anyone know if the german Tesla factory is unionized?
- h4kor 3y ago
  Not yet unionized, but IG Metall is making progress. They have representation in the factory and there recently was an action where thousands of workers wore union pins.
  - SiempreViernes 3y ago
    With Tesla having a blanket global ban on allowing unions coming straight from the top, I think IG Metall is just deluding themselves if they think they make progress. Considering IF Metall started the current strike after trying to get deal signed for six years, I guess IG Metall will be still reporting "progress" out to 2030...
- lispm 3y ago
  It has a works council: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_council https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_council Next year there are new elections for it.

fransje26 3y ago

I would not rule out Germany..