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> statements like this literally set me off. The patient being right and the doctor ignoring the patient and treating the patient like an idiot There's a huge

> statements like this literally set me off. The patient being right and the doctor ignoring the patient and treating the patient like an idiot There's a huge number of people who vastly overestimate their medical knowledge, google some symptoms (I'm sure you know the pitfalls of that but many don't), do self-diagnosis as a hobby with friends over coffee, come to absurd conclusions and then bother their doctors about it. It's not ideal but somewhat understandable that under time pressure experts want to to know the object level (symptoms, history) and don't want to waste time listening to the speculation of non-experts, even if that speculation is sometimes right, and even if some (the doctor can't tell who) of those non-experts actually make good points.

corethree 3y ago
Given the amount paid by the patient to the doctor, the doctor is honor bound to listen to the patient, to consider what he said. This is not a trivial amount of money that the patient is forking over to the doctor. It's understandable from the standpoint of irritation, if the doctor is presented with the same crack pot theories all the time then it's understandable how he would ignore such theories. It's not understandable from a moral standpoint. If the doctor isn't delivering to the patient what equates to the thousands of dollars the patient forked over to him, then the doctor needs to be paid the amount he deserves. When a drunk driver kills someone on accident he is honor bound by morality to be responsible for the death. Being drunk is not excuse. Same with a doctor. If he claims he's an expert and he's paid thousands of dollars for a check up he is responsible for being right and if being right means listening to every single theory from the patient because that's what he's morally obligated to do. Not wanting to "waste time" because of "pressure" is not an excuse. Ever. Lives are at stake.
- intended 3y ago
  If the doctor was free, would any of these things change?
  - corethree 3y ago
    A patient isn't just damaged by bad treatment. He's damaged by medical costs. He's damaged by the very thing that makes doctors rich. And often given in return incompetency. Bled dry by "experts" holding their lives hostage. https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/31/health/us-health-care-spending-global-perspective/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/31/health/us-health-care-spendin... It's disgusting. Oh and check this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6139931/#:~:text=It%20is%20estimated%20that%2050,deaths%20related%20to%20opioid%20overdose.&text=(See%20Figure%201.)&text=But%20statistics%20on%20death%20do%20not%20tell%20the%20whole%20story https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6139931/#:~:tex.... It's not just incompetence. Trustworthiness is also an issue.

corethree 3y ago

Given the amount paid by the patient to the doctor, the doctor is honor bound to listen to the patient, to consider what he said. This is not a trivial amount of money that the patient is forking over to the doctor. It's understandable from the standpoint of irritation, if the doctor is presented with the same crack pot theories all the time then it's understandable how he would ignore such theories. It's not understandable from a moral standpoint. If the doctor isn't delivering to the patient what equates to the thousands of dollars the patient forked over to him, then the doctor needs to be paid the amount he deserves. When a drunk driver kills someone on accident he is honor bound by morality to be responsible for the death. Being drunk is not excuse. Same with a doctor. If he claims he's an expert and he's paid thousands of dollars for a check up he is responsible for being right and if being right means listening to every single theory from the patient because that's what he's morally obligated to do. Not wanting to "waste time" because of "pressure" is not an excuse. Ever. Lives are at stake.

intended 3y ago
If the doctor was free, would any of these things change?
- corethree 3y ago
  A patient isn't just damaged by bad treatment. He's damaged by medical costs. He's damaged by the very thing that makes doctors rich. And often given in return incompetency. Bled dry by "experts" holding their lives hostage. https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/31/health/us-health-care-spending-global-perspective/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/31/health/us-health-care-spendin... It's disgusting. Oh and check this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6139931/#:~:text=It%20is%20estimated%20that%2050,deaths%20related%20to%20opioid%20overdose.&text=(See%20Figure%201.)&text=But%20statistics%20on%20death%20do%20not%20tell%20the%20whole%20story https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6139931/#:~:tex.... It's not just incompetence. Trustworthiness is also an issue.