11 ms·

And where does Visa factor in all of this? I have lived and worked in 5 different countries in my adult life and I can attest that some countries make it much e

And where does Visa factor in all of this? I have lived and worked in 5 different countries in my adult life and I can attest that some countries make it much easier than others to move in (I'm looking at you USA). Visa, immigration status, taxes and such are quite a big factor for people to consider, particularly when they are more established in their lifes.

082349872349872 3y ago
In The World of Yesterday Stefan Zweig laments the loss (among other things) of a world (at the dawn of the last century) in which passports* and visa requirements were not yet a major thing. I guess I'm lucky that my birth country's passport offered visa-free travel to 150+ countries: https://www.henleyglobal.com/passport-index/ranking https://www.henleyglobal.com/passport-index/ranking * Zweig also mentions how in the late 1930's people whose conversation was normally on a much more intellectual plane —books, opera, art, etc.— were reduced to concrete discussions centred around rumours of which countries it was still relatively easy to get visas for.
- adastra22 3y ago
  But visa-free travel is not the same as visa-free emigration. Very, very few countries let people from other countries just buy a house or setup shop (pretty much just the Schengen zone).
  - schoen 3y ago
    Were there actually legal restrictions on those things in many places prior to the routinization of passports and passport controls in World War I?
    - adastra22 3y ago
      No. You just got on a boat and went to some other country. No passports, no passport controls, no immigration quotas. In the US at least it goes back a little bit further than WW1, to the Chinese exclusion act in the late 1800’s.
      - JoeAltmaier 3y ago
        Kind of. You weren't given many rights unless you did it right. For instance, paupers were often excluded from American cities as early as the 1700's. As for immigration quotas, early American colonies were more concerned with increasing immigration. America was big and empty. If you had money, you were welcome. About that. If you didn't have money, you became an indentured servant. Took half your life to pay it off. Not a real citizen until then. So, sure, you could come to America. But it wasn't all honey and roses. It was different, but not much better.
    - jowea 3y ago
      From a quick check of Wikipedia and guesses: the US started restrictions (at the time by race) with the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. Australia and New Zealand had their own versions of the above in place somewhere between the 1880s that and the 1920s. Latin America also attracted a lot of immigrants so I assume not that many restrictions but I don't know what laws were in place. You'd have to check country by country. I assume colonial powers didn't restrict their own countrymen from emigrating to their colonies in Africa or Asia but that's just a guess. I believe the above covers most of the large scale immigration at the time. To be honest I don't know what would happen if say a random Frenchman went to Tokyo/Moscow/Beirut and tried to buy a house, get a job and marry a local but that's an interesting question. Unfortunately the general wikipedia page isn't complete: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_law
      - 082349872349872 3y ago
        If the random frenchman happened to have been jewish, Moscow would've been out of the question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_of_Settlement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_of_Settlement
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]

082349872349872 3y ago

In The World of Yesterday Stefan Zweig laments the loss (among other things) of a world (at the dawn of the last century) in which passports* and visa requirements were not yet a major thing. I guess I'm lucky that my birth country's passport offered visa-free travel to 150+ countries: https://www.henleyglobal.com/passport-index/ranking https://www.henleyglobal.com/passport-index/ranking * Zweig also mentions how in the late 1930's people whose conversation was normally on a much more intellectual plane —books, opera, art, etc.— were reduced to concrete discussions centred around rumours of which countries it was still relatively easy to get visas for.

adastra22 3y ago
But visa-free travel is not the same as visa-free emigration. Very, very few countries let people from other countries just buy a house or setup shop (pretty much just the Schengen zone).
- schoen 3y ago
  Were there actually legal restrictions on those things in many places prior to the routinization of passports and passport controls in World War I?
  - adastra22 3y ago
    No. You just got on a boat and went to some other country. No passports, no passport controls, no immigration quotas. In the US at least it goes back a little bit further than WW1, to the Chinese exclusion act in the late 1800’s.
    - JoeAltmaier 3y ago
      Kind of. You weren't given many rights unless you did it right. For instance, paupers were often excluded from American cities as early as the 1700's. As for immigration quotas, early American colonies were more concerned with increasing immigration. America was big and empty. If you had money, you were welcome. About that. If you didn't have money, you became an indentured servant. Took half your life to pay it off. Not a real citizen until then. So, sure, you could come to America. But it wasn't all honey and roses. It was different, but not much better.
  - jowea 3y ago
    From a quick check of Wikipedia and guesses: the US started restrictions (at the time by race) with the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. Australia and New Zealand had their own versions of the above in place somewhere between the 1880s that and the 1920s. Latin America also attracted a lot of immigrants so I assume not that many restrictions but I don't know what laws were in place. You'd have to check country by country. I assume colonial powers didn't restrict their own countrymen from emigrating to their colonies in Africa or Asia but that's just a guess. I believe the above covers most of the large scale immigration at the time. To be honest I don't know what would happen if say a random Frenchman went to Tokyo/Moscow/Beirut and tried to buy a house, get a job and marry a local but that's an interesting question. Unfortunately the general wikipedia page isn't complete: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_law
    - 082349872349872 3y ago
      If the random frenchman happened to have been jewish, Moscow would've been out of the question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_of_Settlement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_of_Settlement
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]