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What part? That it exists as stated? Or do you believe that every single teacher in California should be deciding how to teach what verbs are, or how dividing

What part? That it exists as stated? Or do you believe that every single teacher in California should be deciding how to teach what verbs are, or how dividing works, in their own way however they choose? Is that really better than finding the best explanation, worksheets, and using that? Because right now there's a classroom in California being taught the worst possible way how to divide, out of all the other classrooms in California. Why? Because why not, freedom!

s1artibartfast 3y ago
First, I object to the idea Every teacher gets to decide what they teach. There is a very prescriptive list of what the curriculum must contain, and it is assessed by standardize tests. Second, teachers aren't fungible robots. They are humans with personalities, interests, and passions. Education works best when teachers are engaged. I think you underestimate the value provided by flexibility. you might be able to reduce variation through standardization, but that doesnt mean you improve the mean. My very best teachers went off script, teaching more valuable information, like a 5th grade teacher that decided to teach business, html, and the scientific method. Last, it isn't exactly anarchy. Many subjects can be taught from texts, which are organized along standardized approaches.
- tick_tock_tick 3y ago
  3/4 of teacher believe in "learning styles" which we figured out was bunk science pretty much the instant it came out. It sucks that we'll probably crush the great teacher but forcing so much standardization but the simple fact is most teachers can't be trusted to actually make good decisions or teach well.
  - hutzlibu 3y ago
    "the simple fact is most teachers can't be trusted to actually make good decisions or teach well" Another simple fact is, that despite all that effort and forced curriculum and years of attending - most people don't understand even basic science. So I question, that the current system is working efficiently at all.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    The question then is if you expect better outcomes from the same teachers you dont trust, who cant teach, and make bad decisions if you provide them a script they hate. Do you expect better outcomes if they quit and you replace them with training videos? Call me a skeptic, but I dont think standard lesson plans will move the needle for a shitty teacher that doesn't give a shit. They probably wont even engage with that standard lesson plan.
    - tick_tock_tick 3y ago
      > The question then is if you expect better outcomes from the same teachers you dont trust, who cant teach, and make bad decisions if you provide them a script they hate. Yes > Do you expect better outcomes if they quit and you replace them with training videos? You still need someone to enforce the kids are actually doing what they've been instructed to but yes I'd expect an equal or better outcome.
MikeTheGreat 3y ago
It's worth pointing out that different students are different people; each person has their unique background and knowledge when they first arrive in a classroom. If you've got a student who's struggling with < versus > they're going to have a real hard time with further math if you don't provide some support for them (and even then they'll still have a hard time, you'll just be helping them - it'll be similar to someone spotting you while you do bench presses near the limit of what you can handle). There is no "best explanation, best worksheet" any more than there's a "best shoe size, best cut/style of pants". Hire good teachers who care about their students, and let them figure out how to best address the needs of their students in that particular classroom.

s1artibartfast 3y ago

First, I object to the idea Every teacher gets to decide what they teach. There is a very prescriptive list of what the curriculum must contain, and it is assessed by standardize tests. Second, teachers aren't fungible robots. They are humans with personalities, interests, and passions. Education works best when teachers are engaged. I think you underestimate the value provided by flexibility. you might be able to reduce variation through standardization, but that doesnt mean you improve the mean. My very best teachers went off script, teaching more valuable information, like a 5th grade teacher that decided to teach business, html, and the scientific method. Last, it isn't exactly anarchy. Many subjects can be taught from texts, which are organized along standardized approaches.

tick_tock_tick 3y ago
3/4 of teacher believe in "learning styles" which we figured out was bunk science pretty much the instant it came out. It sucks that we'll probably crush the great teacher but forcing so much standardization but the simple fact is most teachers can't be trusted to actually make good decisions or teach well.
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  "the simple fact is most teachers can't be trusted to actually make good decisions or teach well" Another simple fact is, that despite all that effort and forced curriculum and years of attending - most people don't understand even basic science. So I question, that the current system is working efficiently at all.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  The question then is if you expect better outcomes from the same teachers you dont trust, who cant teach, and make bad decisions if you provide them a script they hate. Do you expect better outcomes if they quit and you replace them with training videos? Call me a skeptic, but I dont think standard lesson plans will move the needle for a shitty teacher that doesn't give a shit. They probably wont even engage with that standard lesson plan.
  - tick_tock_tick 3y ago
    > The question then is if you expect better outcomes from the same teachers you dont trust, who cant teach, and make bad decisions if you provide them a script they hate. Yes > Do you expect better outcomes if they quit and you replace them with training videos? You still need someone to enforce the kids are actually doing what they've been instructed to but yes I'd expect an equal or better outcome.

MikeTheGreat 3y ago

It's worth pointing out that different students are different people; each person has their unique background and knowledge when they first arrive in a classroom. If you've got a student who's struggling with < versus > they're going to have a real hard time with further math if you don't provide some support for them (and even then they'll still have a hard time, you'll just be helping them - it'll be similar to someone spotting you while you do bench presses near the limit of what you can handle). There is no "best explanation, best worksheet" any more than there's a "best shoe size, best cut/style of pants". Hire good teachers who care about their students, and let them figure out how to best address the needs of their students in that particular classroom.