3 ms·

This meta-analysis seems to have the usual flaw: Most diet regimens studied are minor variations of common, standard diets. As a result this shows the result

This meta-analysis seems to have the usual flaw: Most diet regimens studied are minor variations of common, standard diets. As a result this shows the result of including fiber in a standard diet. Diets that vary significantly from standard such as vegan diets or so-called paleo or carnivore diets appear in some studies to generate very different results from additional fiber ingested with a standard diet. In short, fiber is great if you are eating a standard diet, but if you ingest a particular selection foods then the observed positive effects from fiber may disappear.

hombre_fatal 3y ago
Your hypothesis sounds more like hoping that there’s some permutation of a diet where you don’t need fiber rather than some sort of limitation of the research. I’ve heard this kind of thing from carnivore charlatans on Twitter where they’re “skeptical” of the need for fiber, vitamin C, and other nutrients they don’t get on their diet. Since they can’t base this on any evidence, they say “until someone studies my exact fad diet, we can’t really know.” Until someone studies my candy diet, we can’t know if $nutrient is actually necessary for me. Maybe my candy diet magically precludes the need for it and $nutrient is only necessary for those on standard diets. For all we know, maybe candy is super healthy when it's 100% of your diet as opposed to adding it to a SAD.
- seec 3y ago
  You are more likely to be on the side of wrong to be honest. Considering vegetables couldn't have been largely available in winter in the east/north part of Europe, it is unlikely that they are necessary for a healthy life (considering this part of the world is doing pretty good in many health factors). Personally, I like veggies for the taste but I really doubt they are necessary if you eat nutrient dense animal products. I think those kinds of studies have some results because people can't make the difference between real hunger and boredom hunger, so having your stomach full of useless crap (like a ruminant) makes it easier to not eat too much. But if you consider a person with physical activity the fiber would actually be counterproductive because they would prevent fast absorption of useful energy. Just ask any high-level sportsman how much he like fiber... Besides that, it is doubtful fiber does anything good...
  - fragmede 3y ago
    > Considering vegetables couldn't have been largely available in winter in the east/north part of Europe Root cellars to store vegetables, among other foods, through the winter are a pretty old technology, so Scandinavia has been eating winter vegetables for quite some time.
    - seec 3y ago
      That's right but if we consider the recommended amounts, it is improbable that they would be able to store so much. I grew up in a house from the 12th century that was a priory. There was only a small associated dependency that had a decently large cellar (about 70m2) but that couldn't have been enough to store veggies for the number of monks that lived here (the main house is 150m2 on 2 level plus an attic)? I know that for sure because I had to clean it and remove all the crap that the old neighbor had stored in it (including wine barrels and lots of potatoes, I also found WW2 ammo cache, whoops). Also, we stored quite a bit of our own veggies and it is challenging to keep most things in good shape; if you are lucky, you may get decent stuff by the end of January but then all bets are off. What I am saying is that it is very easy for us to argue about those things with all our modern knowledge and capacity but it is unlikely that they bothered with veggies in the winter back then. Which is exactly why they stored potatoes and grains, made cheese and salted meat. The veggies, if they were any, were the cherry on top, not exactly a staple.
      - fragmede 3y ago
        I don't want to quibble over a precise definition of "largely available in winter" but I'd say having access vegetables through the end of January, which is half way through the season, is pretty good eating considering their level of technology.
        seec 3y ago
        I agree that's pretty decent. Especially since it consume no energy...

hombre_fatal 3y ago

Your hypothesis sounds more like hoping that there’s some permutation of a diet where you don’t need fiber rather than some sort of limitation of the research. I’ve heard this kind of thing from carnivore charlatans on Twitter where they’re “skeptical” of the need for fiber, vitamin C, and other nutrients they don’t get on their diet. Since they can’t base this on any evidence, they say “until someone studies my exact fad diet, we can’t really know.” Until someone studies my candy diet, we can’t know if $nutrient is actually necessary for me. Maybe my candy diet magically precludes the need for it and $nutrient is only necessary for those on standard diets. For all we know, maybe candy is super healthy when it's 100% of your diet as opposed to adding it to a SAD.

seec 3y ago
You are more likely to be on the side of wrong to be honest. Considering vegetables couldn't have been largely available in winter in the east/north part of Europe, it is unlikely that they are necessary for a healthy life (considering this part of the world is doing pretty good in many health factors). Personally, I like veggies for the taste but I really doubt they are necessary if you eat nutrient dense animal products. I think those kinds of studies have some results because people can't make the difference between real hunger and boredom hunger, so having your stomach full of useless crap (like a ruminant) makes it easier to not eat too much. But if you consider a person with physical activity the fiber would actually be counterproductive because they would prevent fast absorption of useful energy. Just ask any high-level sportsman how much he like fiber... Besides that, it is doubtful fiber does anything good...
- fragmede 3y ago
  > Considering vegetables couldn't have been largely available in winter in the east/north part of Europe Root cellars to store vegetables, among other foods, through the winter are a pretty old technology, so Scandinavia has been eating winter vegetables for quite some time.
  - seec 3y ago
    That's right but if we consider the recommended amounts, it is improbable that they would be able to store so much. I grew up in a house from the 12th century that was a priory. There was only a small associated dependency that had a decently large cellar (about 70m2) but that couldn't have been enough to store veggies for the number of monks that lived here (the main house is 150m2 on 2 level plus an attic)? I know that for sure because I had to clean it and remove all the crap that the old neighbor had stored in it (including wine barrels and lots of potatoes, I also found WW2 ammo cache, whoops). Also, we stored quite a bit of our own veggies and it is challenging to keep most things in good shape; if you are lucky, you may get decent stuff by the end of January but then all bets are off. What I am saying is that it is very easy for us to argue about those things with all our modern knowledge and capacity but it is unlikely that they bothered with veggies in the winter back then. Which is exactly why they stored potatoes and grains, made cheese and salted meat. The veggies, if they were any, were the cherry on top, not exactly a staple.
    - fragmede 3y ago
      I don't want to quibble over a precise definition of "largely available in winter" but I'd say having access vegetables through the end of January, which is half way through the season, is pretty good eating considering their level of technology.
      - seec 3y ago
        I agree that's pretty decent. Especially since it consume no energy...