4 ms·

Joint initiative for trustworthy AI

67 points by huhtenberg 3y ago

oh_sigh 3y ago
[flagged]
- j4hdufd8 3y ago
  Why not?
  - waveBidder 3y ago
    they're known for trustworthy and extremely private banking, for one
    - gumballindie 3y ago
      Yeah like hiding assets owned by dictators and criminals. A country with an economy mainly focused on that is not particularly trustworthy.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - passerby1 3y ago
        But it's democratic [0], specifically a direct one: "tradition of direct democracy". 0 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Switzerland https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Switzerland
        gumballindie 3y ago
        That’s bad - it means the country’s citizens have no issues with their banks storing criminal money. Also switzerland is that kind of european country that doesnt mind showing up posters of immigrants as crows. Pretty lame for a “democracy”.
  - newprint 3y ago
    Given a fact just today a news came out that CH bank been caught hiding billions in assets from IRS, I think you have your answer.
- dang 3y ago
  Whoa, please keep nationalistic flamewar off HN. Last thing we need here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
primitivesuave 3y ago
A government computing project acquiring 10k GPUs is pretty impressive, but can hardly be deemed a "competitive advantage" - Google and AWS are already offering double the computing power in a single data center [1]. OpenAI is likely already using a cluster of at least this size to train ChatGPT. 1. https://www.hpcwire.com/2023/07/27/aws-cramming-up-to-20000-nvidia-gpus-in-ai-supercomputing-clusters/ https://www.hpcwire.com/2023/07/27/aws-cramming-up-to-20000-...
- krasin 3y ago
  It's the right order of magnitude. Things will happen, given the will, the acquired hardware, and the brains in EPFL and ETH Zurich.
yetanother12345 3y ago
> trustworthy AI >> "... ensure legal, ethical and scientific criteria are met." Please... We are talking about stochastic models. This means that we are in the domain of Math, not the domain of Philosophy, and not Law either. Evaluating a stochastic model, even a multivariate model, involves only two dimensions. Even if it is running on 10k GPUs. Even if it has been trained on billions of data points. The two dimensions are: 1) Reliability 2) Validity ...and that is all. It is Statistics 101. Not only that, it is the most fundamental part of Statistics 101.
- jal278 3y ago
  Where is the firm dividing line that separates math from philosophy?
  - bossyTeacher 3y ago
    Simple. Metaphysics is not math. Ethics is not math. Really, the only intersection is formal logic (until a certain German/Austrian mathematician blew it all up with his annoying theorems)
    - jal278 3y ago
      But applied mathematics can have ethical impact -- e.g. the concept of whether a human should trust the output of a particular language model. So GP's idea of 'trust' not applying because an object has its basis in math seems like a false dividing line. Ultimately everything can be grounded in things such as math as far as we know, although its not useful to reason about e.g. ethics from thinking about the mathematics of neuronal behavior.
      - haltist 3y ago
        This is not true. Lots of things have no mathematical foundations because it is impossible to state them formally/symbolically. If you can not specify it formally then it is not mathematics. AI is mathematics because software/code/hardware is mathematics so all the hullabaloo about "safety" makes absolutely no sense other than as a marketing gimmick. Even alignment has been co-opted by OpenAI's marketing department to sell more subscriptions. But in any event, the endgame of AI is a machine god that perpetuates itself and keeps humans around as pets. That is the best case scenario because by most measures the developed world is already a mechanical apparatus and the only missing piece for its perpetuation is the mechanical brain. As usual, I can build this mechanical brain for $80B so tell your VC friends.
m3kw9 3y ago
[flagged]

67 points by huhtenberg 3y ago

oh_sigh 3y ago

[flagged]

j4hdufd8 3y ago
Why not?
- waveBidder 3y ago
  they're known for trustworthy and extremely private banking, for one
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    Yeah like hiding assets owned by dictators and criminals. A country with an economy mainly focused on that is not particularly trustworthy.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - passerby1 3y ago
      But it's democratic [0], specifically a direct one: "tradition of direct democracy". 0 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Switzerland https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Switzerland
      - gumballindie 3y ago
        That’s bad - it means the country’s citizens have no issues with their banks storing criminal money. Also switzerland is that kind of european country that doesnt mind showing up posters of immigrants as crows. Pretty lame for a “democracy”.
- newprint 3y ago
  Given a fact just today a news came out that CH bank been caught hiding billions in assets from IRS, I think you have your answer.
dang 3y ago
Whoa, please keep nationalistic flamewar off HN. Last thing we need here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

primitivesuave 3y ago

A government computing project acquiring 10k GPUs is pretty impressive, but can hardly be deemed a "competitive advantage" - Google and AWS are already offering double the computing power in a single data center [1]. OpenAI is likely already using a cluster of at least this size to train ChatGPT. 1. https://www.hpcwire.com/2023/07/27/aws-cramming-up-to-20000-nvidia-gpus-in-ai-supercomputing-clusters/ https://www.hpcwire.com/2023/07/27/aws-cramming-up-to-20000-...

krasin 3y ago
It's the right order of magnitude. Things will happen, given the will, the acquired hardware, and the brains in EPFL and ETH Zurich.

yetanother12345 3y ago

> trustworthy AI >> "... ensure legal, ethical and scientific criteria are met." Please... We are talking about stochastic models. This means that we are in the domain of Math, not the domain of Philosophy, and not Law either. Evaluating a stochastic model, even a multivariate model, involves only two dimensions. Even if it is running on 10k GPUs. Even if it has been trained on billions of data points. The two dimensions are: 1) Reliability 2) Validity ...and that is all. It is Statistics 101. Not only that, it is the most fundamental part of Statistics 101.

jal278 3y ago
Where is the firm dividing line that separates math from philosophy?
- bossyTeacher 3y ago
  Simple. Metaphysics is not math. Ethics is not math. Really, the only intersection is formal logic (until a certain German/Austrian mathematician blew it all up with his annoying theorems)
  - jal278 3y ago
    But applied mathematics can have ethical impact -- e.g. the concept of whether a human should trust the output of a particular language model. So GP's idea of 'trust' not applying because an object has its basis in math seems like a false dividing line. Ultimately everything can be grounded in things such as math as far as we know, although its not useful to reason about e.g. ethics from thinking about the mathematics of neuronal behavior.
    - haltist 3y ago
      This is not true. Lots of things have no mathematical foundations because it is impossible to state them formally/symbolically. If you can not specify it formally then it is not mathematics. AI is mathematics because software/code/hardware is mathematics so all the hullabaloo about "safety" makes absolutely no sense other than as a marketing gimmick. Even alignment has been co-opted by OpenAI's marketing department to sell more subscriptions. But in any event, the endgame of AI is a machine god that perpetuates itself and keeps humans around as pets. That is the best case scenario because by most measures the developed world is already a mechanical apparatus and the only missing piece for its perpetuation is the mechanical brain. As usual, I can build this mechanical brain for $80B so tell your VC friends.

m3kw9 3y ago

[flagged]