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That part is confusing to me because it specifically calls out items that are for violating privacy. Any defense from "we are not responsible for how a product

by belval 3y ago

That part is confusing to me because it specifically calls out items that are for violating privacy. Any defense from "we are not responsible for how a product is used as long as it's legal" or "our safety team inspects products that could hurt people" (AC appliance without a properly grounded case) would have sounded much more reasonable to me. The reality of it is probably that reviewers can only spend ~1 minute per item before flagging it or not, the reviewer was a bit on "autopilot" and didn't flag it because it doesn't look like a camera at all.

bluGill 3y ago
You cannot possibly review this in one minute. You need a team of different experts and they need time to think. If you saw this for one minute before looking at this article you probably wouldn't think about this use case - even though it is obvious once someone points it out. So Amazon needs to show they gave the review team enough time to think about this type of thing. Amazon might be able to get out of this if they can show the court a long enough checklist of things they did look for that this does pass. If that list is long enough (a term I specifically did not define!) they can argue they did due diligence, this is just different from everything they thought of and so it slipped threw the cracks. Of course the checklist better have a clear procedure for "something else not on this list" and a it needs to be clear anytime something not on the list is thought of that the process gets that new thing on the list. This is NOT easy or cheap.
- belval 3y ago
  > You cannot possibly review this in one minute. I didn't mean to imply that you can. It's more that at Amazon's scale, they are surely constrained by how many new items are put up for sale every second. If even just 1/100 needs to be reviewed, then that's a considerable amount of work. Once the pipeline is setup their workforce probably got progressively better so they increase the review/day targets to match. That loop does not have a lot of feedback so they probably raised it too high at some point and this is the result. All of that to say, it's much more likely to be a process failure than anything else. They probably tried to optimize that process but cut too close to the bone and this is the result.
  - maeil 3y ago
    They choose to be constrained. Do you know just how big of a % of their budgets Tencent and the likes spend on employing people who maintain censorship on their Chinese platforms? Amazon, Meta et. al could spend the same amount to keep their platforms clean and an actual boon to society instead of scam-infested, negative externality fests. But they don't. They could though.
- tdeck 3y ago
  How about this shower head spy camera? Does it take more than a minute to figure out how this might violate someone's privacy? https://www.amazon.com/Bathroom-Shower-Security-Cameras-Outdoor/dp/B0CMWSZG6N/ref=sr_1_4?crid=WK1AEHNZLNQE&keywords=%22bathroom+spy+camera%22&qid=1701724421&sprefix=bathroom+spy+camera+%2Caps%2C96&sr=8-4&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.ac2169a1-b668-44b9-8bd0-5ec63b24bcb5 https://www.amazon.com/Bathroom-Shower-Security-Cameras-Outd...
  - nomdep 3y ago
    Yes, that’s WAY MORE messed up than the hanger camera. Amazon could at least have a team that review flagged items and kicked out those sellers

by belval 3y ago

bluGill 3y ago

You cannot possibly review this in one minute. You need a team of different experts and they need time to think. If you saw this for one minute before looking at this article you probably wouldn't think about this use case - even though it is obvious once someone points it out. So Amazon needs to show they gave the review team enough time to think about this type of thing. Amazon might be able to get out of this if they can show the court a long enough checklist of things they did look for that this does pass. If that list is long enough (a term I specifically did not define!) they can argue they did due diligence, this is just different from everything they thought of and so it slipped threw the cracks. Of course the checklist better have a clear procedure for "something else not on this list" and a it needs to be clear anytime something not on the list is thought of that the process gets that new thing on the list. This is NOT easy or cheap.

belval 3y ago
> You cannot possibly review this in one minute. I didn't mean to imply that you can. It's more that at Amazon's scale, they are surely constrained by how many new items are put up for sale every second. If even just 1/100 needs to be reviewed, then that's a considerable amount of work. Once the pipeline is setup their workforce probably got progressively better so they increase the review/day targets to match. That loop does not have a lot of feedback so they probably raised it too high at some point and this is the result. All of that to say, it's much more likely to be a process failure than anything else. They probably tried to optimize that process but cut too close to the bone and this is the result.
- maeil 3y ago
  They choose to be constrained. Do you know just how big of a % of their budgets Tencent and the likes spend on employing people who maintain censorship on their Chinese platforms? Amazon, Meta et. al could spend the same amount to keep their platforms clean and an actual boon to society instead of scam-infested, negative externality fests. But they don't. They could though.
tdeck 3y ago
How about this shower head spy camera? Does it take more than a minute to figure out how this might violate someone's privacy? https://www.amazon.com/Bathroom-Shower-Security-Cameras-Outdoor/dp/B0CMWSZG6N/ref=sr_1_4?crid=WK1AEHNZLNQE&keywords=%22bathroom+spy+camera%22&qid=1701724421&sprefix=bathroom+spy+camera+%2Caps%2C96&sr=8-4&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.ac2169a1-b668-44b9-8bd0-5ec63b24bcb5 https://www.amazon.com/Bathroom-Shower-Security-Cameras-Outd...
- nomdep 3y ago
  Yes, that’s WAY MORE messed up than the hanger camera. Amazon could at least have a team that review flagged items and kicked out those sellers