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Is there an archive snapshot of the Towel bar Cam product page as displayed by Amazon? Kinda wondering what the product actually looks like, and how Amazon all

Is there an archive snapshot of the Towel bar Cam product page as displayed by Amazon? Kinda wondering what the product actually looks like, and how Amazon allowed it to be presented. Edit: whoa, @navels how'd you do that?! Thank you, amazing: https://web.archive.org/web/20230527030738/https://www.amazon.com/Clothes-Detection-Wireless-Security-Recorder/dp/B0BJDK7VLM/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230527030738/https://www.amazo... The product reviews are creepy. -- Rest of my comment for posterity: There's an image in TFA, though it's only a partial, limited view: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/MS-v-Amazon-spycam-ad.png https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/MS-v-... Another article from yesterday contains a zoomed in image but no description: https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2023/12/amazon-may-be-liable-for-merchants-spycam-m-s-v-amazon.htm https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2023/12/amazon-may-be-... If we knew the product ID it could be checked for existence on archive.org. Anyhow, the research link I used is: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22it+wont+attract+attention%22+%22a+very+ordinary+hook%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22it+wont+attract+attention...

navels 3y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20230527030738/https://www.amazon.com/Clothes-Detection-Wireless-Security-Recorder/dp/B0BJDK7VLM/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230527030738/https://www.amazo...
- gnfargbl 3y ago
  That link doesn't mention anything about it being a "bathroom spy camera". It was sold as a nanny cam which is really a legitimate, if slightly distasteful, function. There is an image of it shown with towels on the hook, but it isn't stated or implied that it should be used to spy on people as they use the bathroom. I'm a big fan of holding tech companies to the same standards as other industries, but not a big fan of holding them to unreasonably high standards.
  - 0xEFF 3y ago
    It literally says spy cam in the product title.
    - praptak 3y ago
      It's obviously only for the legitimate usage by the James Bond type of spy.
    - supertimor 3y ago
      As well as under the “Recommended uses for product”section it says, “ Pet, Spy”
  - praptak 3y ago
    Nanny cam is obviously a crappy attempt at covering the seller's ass and no judge should believe it.
    - gnfargbl 3y ago
      Are nanny cams not a legitimate product? If they are a legitimate product, how do we tell the legitimate product from this (in your words) "crappy attempt at covering the seller's ass?" If they are a legitimate product and we can't reasonably tell the difference, why should Amazon have banned this product?
      - tremon 3y ago
        Nanny cams do not need to be disguised as not-a-camera.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        Brian_K_White 3y ago
        Of course they do. There are countless legitimate uses for a hidden camera. The only thing a visible camera is good for is to ensure that nothing bad happens in front of that camera. And even a towel bar or clothes hanger does not automatically mean bedroom or bathroom either. Closets and towel bars can and do exist anywhere, like kitchens, laundry rooms, front and rear entrances, mud rooms, workshops, offices, stock rooms, really anywhere. They are even legitimate IN bedrooms, if it's your own bedroom. It's wrong obviously to peeping-tom on a guest or tenant, but if I want to monitor my own bedroom when I'm not in it, I certainly can, and that means the product can't be automatically invalid to exist.
space_fountain 3y ago
I mean I also have a morbid curiosity, but is there anything that could have been there that would have made it ok? This isn't lock picks were a lot of people buy them to mess around with and to get back into their own property
- fckgw 3y ago
  Maybe some dude who likes to watch themselves shit?
  - rhqq2 3y ago
    Or possibly watch others take care of their private business? Either way, facilitating maximum perv is not a great look for Amazon.
  - BobaFloutist 3y ago
    It's pretty common for people taking a sport seriously to record themselves to improve their technique. So maybe competitive shitting?
    - DonHopkins 3y ago
      That's why German toilets have a Hermeneutic stool inschpektion shelf: So they have something to analyze then talk about all day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzXPyCY7jbs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzXPyCY7jbs According to Slavoj Žižek, Germans love Hermeneutic stool diagnostics. >Žižek on toilets. Slavoj Žižek during an architecture congress in Pamplona, Spain. >The German toilets, the old kind -- now they are disappearing, but you still find them. It's the opposite. The hole is in front, so that when you produce excrement, they are displayed in the back, they don't disappear in water. This is the German ritual, you know? Use it every morning. Sniff, inspect your shits for traces of illness. It's high Hermeneutic. I think the original meaning of Hermeneutic may be this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics >Hermeneutics (/ˌhɜːrməˈnjuːtɪks/)[1] is the theory and methodology of interpretation, especially the interpretation of biblical texts, wisdom literature, and philosophical texts. Hermeneutics is more than interpretive principles or methods we resort to when immediate comprehension fails. Rather, hermeneutics is the art of understanding and of making oneself understood. >“In a traditional German toilet, the hole into which shit disappears after we flush is right at the front, so that shit is first laid out for us to sniff and inspect for traces of illness. In the typical French toilet, on the contrary, the hole is at the back, i.e. shit is supposed to disappear as quickly as possible. Finally, the American (Anglo-Saxon) toilet presents a synthesis, a mediation between these opposites: the toilet basin is full of water, so that the shit floats in it, visible, but not to be inspected. [...] It is clear that none of these versions can be accounted for in purely utilitarian terms: each involves a certain ideological perception of how the subject should relate to excrement. Hegel was among the first to see in the geographical triad of Germany, France and England an expression of three different existential attitudes: reflective thoroughness (German), revolutionary hastiness (French), utilitarian pragmatism (English). In political terms, this triad can be read as German conservatism, French revolutionary radicalism and English liberalism. [...] The point about toilets is that they enable us not only to discern this triad in the most intimate domain, but also to identify its underlying mechanism in the three different attitudes towards excremental excess: an ambiguous contemplative fascination; a wish to get rid of it as fast as possible; a pragmatic decision to treat it as ordinary and dispose of it in an appropriate way. It is easy for an academic at a round table to claim that we live in a post-ideological universe, but the moment he visits the lavatory after the heated discussion, he is again knee-deep in ideology.” -Slavoj Žižek An in-toilet shelf-cam paired with a mobile xitter app would be the shit: a Hermeneutic tool for "the art of understanding and of making oneself understood"!
tzs 3y ago
The "Customers who bought this item also bought" for it is interesting...it seems to be all women's bathing suits.
- tyingq 3y ago
  "It puts the lotion on its skin"
chias 3y ago
Dear courts, do this one next https://www.amazon.com/Bathroom-Shower-Security-Cameras-Outdoor/dp/B0CMWSZG6N/ https://www.amazon.com/Bathroom-Shower-Security-Cameras-Outd... The product description is... wild.
- nuancebydefault 3y ago
  That one is unsafe since it supports powerline ethernet. Powerlines should not be in a shower. Other than that, it is supposed to be looking after babies. It is unsafe to leave babies in a shower, water or not, camera or not. Also there is no clear usage description, how to mount, how to pair,... I can't believe it passed CE certification.
- metadat 3y ago
  Even while the lawsuit unfolds, Amazon still hasn't done a sweep. Should I be shocked?
- paulddraper 3y ago
  > You don't have to worry about thieves or your child's babysitter any longer. LMAO I hate it when thieves steal my hot water
  - chias 3y ago
    Gotta throw the babysitter into the description just in case your imagination is so limited that you ACTUALLY think this is about catching thieves taking a shower in your home during a break in.

navels 3y ago

https://web.archive.org/web/20230527030738/https://www.amazon.com/Clothes-Detection-Wireless-Security-Recorder/dp/B0BJDK7VLM/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230527030738/https://www.amazo...

gnfargbl 3y ago
That link doesn't mention anything about it being a "bathroom spy camera". It was sold as a nanny cam which is really a legitimate, if slightly distasteful, function. There is an image of it shown with towels on the hook, but it isn't stated or implied that it should be used to spy on people as they use the bathroom. I'm a big fan of holding tech companies to the same standards as other industries, but not a big fan of holding them to unreasonably high standards.
- 0xEFF 3y ago
  It literally says spy cam in the product title.
  - praptak 3y ago
    It's obviously only for the legitimate usage by the James Bond type of spy.
  - supertimor 3y ago
    As well as under the “Recommended uses for product”section it says, “ Pet, Spy”
- praptak 3y ago
  Nanny cam is obviously a crappy attempt at covering the seller's ass and no judge should believe it.
  - gnfargbl 3y ago
    Are nanny cams not a legitimate product? If they are a legitimate product, how do we tell the legitimate product from this (in your words) "crappy attempt at covering the seller's ass?" If they are a legitimate product and we can't reasonably tell the difference, why should Amazon have banned this product?
    - tremon 3y ago
      Nanny cams do not need to be disguised as not-a-camera.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - Brian_K_White 3y ago
        Of course they do. There are countless legitimate uses for a hidden camera. The only thing a visible camera is good for is to ensure that nothing bad happens in front of that camera. And even a towel bar or clothes hanger does not automatically mean bedroom or bathroom either. Closets and towel bars can and do exist anywhere, like kitchens, laundry rooms, front and rear entrances, mud rooms, workshops, offices, stock rooms, really anywhere. They are even legitimate IN bedrooms, if it's your own bedroom. It's wrong obviously to peeping-tom on a guest or tenant, but if I want to monitor my own bedroom when I'm not in it, I certainly can, and that means the product can't be automatically invalid to exist.

space_fountain 3y ago

I mean I also have a morbid curiosity, but is there anything that could have been there that would have made it ok? This isn't lock picks were a lot of people buy them to mess around with and to get back into their own property

fckgw 3y ago
Maybe some dude who likes to watch themselves shit?
- rhqq2 3y ago
  Or possibly watch others take care of their private business? Either way, facilitating maximum perv is not a great look for Amazon.
- BobaFloutist 3y ago
  It's pretty common for people taking a sport seriously to record themselves to improve their technique. So maybe competitive shitting?
  - DonHopkins 3y ago
    That's why German toilets have a Hermeneutic stool inschpektion shelf: So they have something to analyze then talk about all day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzXPyCY7jbs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzXPyCY7jbs According to Slavoj Žižek, Germans love Hermeneutic stool diagnostics. >Žižek on toilets. Slavoj Žižek during an architecture congress in Pamplona, Spain. >The German toilets, the old kind -- now they are disappearing, but you still find them. It's the opposite. The hole is in front, so that when you produce excrement, they are displayed in the back, they don't disappear in water. This is the German ritual, you know? Use it every morning. Sniff, inspect your shits for traces of illness. It's high Hermeneutic. I think the original meaning of Hermeneutic may be this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics >Hermeneutics (/ˌhɜːrməˈnjuːtɪks/)[1] is the theory and methodology of interpretation, especially the interpretation of biblical texts, wisdom literature, and philosophical texts. Hermeneutics is more than interpretive principles or methods we resort to when immediate comprehension fails. Rather, hermeneutics is the art of understanding and of making oneself understood. >“In a traditional German toilet, the hole into which shit disappears after we flush is right at the front, so that shit is first laid out for us to sniff and inspect for traces of illness. In the typical French toilet, on the contrary, the hole is at the back, i.e. shit is supposed to disappear as quickly as possible. Finally, the American (Anglo-Saxon) toilet presents a synthesis, a mediation between these opposites: the toilet basin is full of water, so that the shit floats in it, visible, but not to be inspected. [...] It is clear that none of these versions can be accounted for in purely utilitarian terms: each involves a certain ideological perception of how the subject should relate to excrement. Hegel was among the first to see in the geographical triad of Germany, France and England an expression of three different existential attitudes: reflective thoroughness (German), revolutionary hastiness (French), utilitarian pragmatism (English). In political terms, this triad can be read as German conservatism, French revolutionary radicalism and English liberalism. [...] The point about toilets is that they enable us not only to discern this triad in the most intimate domain, but also to identify its underlying mechanism in the three different attitudes towards excremental excess: an ambiguous contemplative fascination; a wish to get rid of it as fast as possible; a pragmatic decision to treat it as ordinary and dispose of it in an appropriate way. It is easy for an academic at a round table to claim that we live in a post-ideological universe, but the moment he visits the lavatory after the heated discussion, he is again knee-deep in ideology.” -Slavoj Žižek An in-toilet shelf-cam paired with a mobile xitter app would be the shit: a Hermeneutic tool for "the art of understanding and of making oneself understood"!

tzs 3y ago

The "Customers who bought this item also bought" for it is interesting...it seems to be all women's bathing suits.

tyingq 3y ago
"It puts the lotion on its skin"

chias 3y ago

Dear courts, do this one next https://www.amazon.com/Bathroom-Shower-Security-Cameras-Outdoor/dp/B0CMWSZG6N/ https://www.amazon.com/Bathroom-Shower-Security-Cameras-Outd... The product description is... wild.

nuancebydefault 3y ago
That one is unsafe since it supports powerline ethernet. Powerlines should not be in a shower. Other than that, it is supposed to be looking after babies. It is unsafe to leave babies in a shower, water or not, camera or not. Also there is no clear usage description, how to mount, how to pair,... I can't believe it passed CE certification.
metadat 3y ago
Even while the lawsuit unfolds, Amazon still hasn't done a sweep. Should I be shocked?
paulddraper 3y ago
> You don't have to worry about thieves or your child's babysitter any longer. LMAO I hate it when thieves steal my hot water
- chias 3y ago
  Gotta throw the babysitter into the description just in case your imagination is so limited that you ACTUALLY think this is about catching thieves taking a shower in your home during a break in.