3 ms·

> Especially considering that PII spills over into your relatives, making the PII leakage often out of your control This is the part that gets me. I have young

by dkarl 3y ago

> Especially considering that PII spills over into your relatives, making the PII leakage often out of your control This is the part that gets me. I have young nieces and could conceivably have children someday. Making my DNA public could end up being an invasion of their privacy.

godelski 3y ago
The Golden State killer was actually found due to their third cousin taking a DNA test. Obviously it is not perfect precision, but it reduced 850 suspects to 17[0]. These stories are great in that we found such a killer, but we cannot assume that data will always be used for good and I think history has shown us that it more frequently is used with malice. For context, third cousin is your great grand aunt/uncle's great grandchild[1]. E.g. your parent's parent's parent's sibling's child's child's, child. I am doubtful most people know their second cousin let alone their third (I'm sure there are those that do though). But this is showing the reach of that information leakage, because it can come from someone you have never met in your entire life and do not even have indirect communication with (given the likelihood of your great grandparent being dead and requiring your grandparent to be in contract with their cousins or your parent to be in contact with their second cousin). As more DNA is collected this extent might widen as statistical power increases but this is purely conjecture. I'll also note that the precision needed for reduction of suspects like this case is not the same as certain hereditary conditions but not for all. The main point is about how many people your actions affect and vise versa, that we do not live in a world where the consequences are exclusive to your actions (and importantly, where it is becoming less dominated by your actions). [0] https://www.science.org/content/article/we-will-find-you-dna-search-used-nab-golden-state-killer-can-home-about-60-white https://www.science.org/content/article/we-will-find-you-dna... [1] https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8a/cc/23/8acc23f05c79faabe0740d6566ccc2c1.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8a/cc/23/8acc23f05c79faabe0740d656...
- dkarl 3y ago
  Agreed, serial killers are rare, and it's likely that unsavory forms of discrimination will become commonplace. People will be eager to use genetic profiles aka "all available information" to "inform" all kinds of decisions.
  - godelski 3y ago
    Many of which can also have lots of good intent. I would not blame a doctor for wanting to do genetic testing to look for specific markers. But the whole plot of the movie Gattaca is employers and insurance companies discriminating against people due to risks, even if the risks are small because they can find people without those risks. (Which often creates a self fulfilling prophesy of gene-socioeconomic class status. Scifi not always about future issues...). The problem with cliques is that we get annoyed at them but we do seem to keep forgetting that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. But maybe cliques aren't good because they don't end up reminding us but instead teach us to ignore them and convince ourselves we've learned the lesson because we know the clique.

by dkarl 3y ago

godelski 3y ago

The Golden State killer was actually found due to their third cousin taking a DNA test. Obviously it is not perfect precision, but it reduced 850 suspects to 17[0]. These stories are great in that we found such a killer, but we cannot assume that data will always be used for good and I think history has shown us that it more frequently is used with malice. For context, third cousin is your great grand aunt/uncle's great grandchild[1]. E.g. your parent's parent's parent's sibling's child's child's, child. I am doubtful most people know their second cousin let alone their third (I'm sure there are those that do though). But this is showing the reach of that information leakage, because it can come from someone you have never met in your entire life and do not even have indirect communication with (given the likelihood of your great grandparent being dead and requiring your grandparent to be in contract with their cousins or your parent to be in contact with their second cousin). As more DNA is collected this extent might widen as statistical power increases but this is purely conjecture. I'll also note that the precision needed for reduction of suspects like this case is not the same as certain hereditary conditions but not for all. The main point is about how many people your actions affect and vise versa, that we do not live in a world where the consequences are exclusive to your actions (and importantly, where it is becoming less dominated by your actions). [0] https://www.science.org/content/article/we-will-find-you-dna-search-used-nab-golden-state-killer-can-home-about-60-white https://www.science.org/content/article/we-will-find-you-dna... [1] https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8a/cc/23/8acc23f05c79faabe0740d6566ccc2c1.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8a/cc/23/8acc23f05c79faabe0740d656...

dkarl 3y ago
Agreed, serial killers are rare, and it's likely that unsavory forms of discrimination will become commonplace. People will be eager to use genetic profiles aka "all available information" to "inform" all kinds of decisions.
- godelski 3y ago
  Many of which can also have lots of good intent. I would not blame a doctor for wanting to do genetic testing to look for specific markers. But the whole plot of the movie Gattaca is employers and insurance companies discriminating against people due to risks, even if the risks are small because they can find people without those risks. (Which often creates a self fulfilling prophesy of gene-socioeconomic class status. Scifi not always about future issues...). The problem with cliques is that we get annoyed at them but we do seem to keep forgetting that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. But maybe cliques aren't good because they don't end up reminding us but instead teach us to ignore them and convince ourselves we've learned the lesson because we know the clique.