5 ms·

I am mixing one 60 pound concrete bag at a time from the ground up to avoid this insanity from all sides. Fuck the investors, fuck the homeowners, fuck the lan

I am mixing one 60 pound concrete bag at a time from the ground up to avoid this insanity from all sides. Fuck the investors, fuck the homeowners, fuck the landlords, fuck the general contractors, and fuck the legislators who pass zoning and codes.

snakeyjake 3y ago
>fuck the legislators who pass zoning and codes. I've been a volunteer firefighter for almost 20 years and have seen the results of the work of people who think they know better than building codes many times. And I thank my lucky stars every day that I live in a place with strict zoning, unlike Texas where an oil refinery can be located adjacent to high-density housing.
- beaeglebeach 3y ago
  Cool, I am building to code but I never could have built to code if it were required, because I have a day job and no time for inspections. So I built without code inspections. My experience is I know far more of the code than average volunteer firefighter who has probably never even looked at them, although perhaps not you.
  - techsupporter 3y ago
    > So I built without code inspections. Building code and its associated inspections aren't, primarily, for you. They're for the people around you and the people who come after you. You might be the greatest builder on the planet. I, as the tenant or owner who lives in the structure after you, have no way of knowing that absent you following the process that says a separate entity confirmed that you built a safe structure. I, as your neighbor two parcels down, have no way of knowing that you did or didn't build a building that is likely to burn down and take half of the area with it. To head off what I'm sure is the inevitable reply along the lines of "I will live in this house until I die" and/or "there is no one around me for the next 100 miles", that's fine, but those are situations that can change. Code, and having the inspection, confirms that you did what society asked of you to keep the rest of us safe. (Is the building code and its associated inspections fallible? Absolutely. But deliberately flaunting them because you just didn't have time is similarly not an excuse.)
    - beaeglebeach 3y ago
      My community voted we would rather risk we all die in a fire than be homeless. My county is poor and people do their own work. I live here specifically to get away from people with your concerns.
- theluketaylor 3y ago
  Some building code elements are absolutely critical, like the burn time required for external walls and then increasing it for shared walls. That absolutely saves lives and should be sacrosanct. Plenty of other code requirements are overly bureaucratic and do nothing but add expense, like ever decreasing maximum distance between outlets. Zoning is the same way. Some of the rules are critical, but most are existing residents enforcing their preferences via bylaw. Ensuring adequate buffers between truly industrial uses and residential is a great use of zoning. Not being able to open low impact business like a barber shop or cafe in a residential neighbourhood makes absolutely no sense. Lot coverage percentages, parking minimums, height restrictions that don't allow gentle density, and exclusive single family zoning all need to go. More than a century of code and zoning restriction have piled on each other over and over (with zoning often deeply rooted in racist policies). It's long past time to identify the safety critical ones and eject all the rest. It's true of zoning moreso than building code, but both could use a serious refactor.
  - quesera 3y ago
    Many of your "bad" examples have good justifications too. You might not notice the value because the problems they were designed to prevent do not occur! Exclusive SFH zoning is the least-frequently (but still not never) defensible, IMO. The others can be reasonable.
- amanaplanacanal 3y ago
  Keeping heavy industry away from residential is probably a good thing. Keeping out multifamily and retail is the problem.
  - beaeglebeach 3y ago
    This is easily obtainable without zoning by buying in a subdivision with CC&Rs excluding industry.

snakeyjake 3y ago

>fuck the legislators who pass zoning and codes. I've been a volunteer firefighter for almost 20 years and have seen the results of the work of people who think they know better than building codes many times. And I thank my lucky stars every day that I live in a place with strict zoning, unlike Texas where an oil refinery can be located adjacent to high-density housing.

beaeglebeach 3y ago
Cool, I am building to code but I never could have built to code if it were required, because I have a day job and no time for inspections. So I built without code inspections. My experience is I know far more of the code than average volunteer firefighter who has probably never even looked at them, although perhaps not you.
- techsupporter 3y ago
  > So I built without code inspections. Building code and its associated inspections aren't, primarily, for you. They're for the people around you and the people who come after you. You might be the greatest builder on the planet. I, as the tenant or owner who lives in the structure after you, have no way of knowing that absent you following the process that says a separate entity confirmed that you built a safe structure. I, as your neighbor two parcels down, have no way of knowing that you did or didn't build a building that is likely to burn down and take half of the area with it. To head off what I'm sure is the inevitable reply along the lines of "I will live in this house until I die" and/or "there is no one around me for the next 100 miles", that's fine, but those are situations that can change. Code, and having the inspection, confirms that you did what society asked of you to keep the rest of us safe. (Is the building code and its associated inspections fallible? Absolutely. But deliberately flaunting them because you just didn't have time is similarly not an excuse.)
  - beaeglebeach 3y ago
    My community voted we would rather risk we all die in a fire than be homeless. My county is poor and people do their own work. I live here specifically to get away from people with your concerns.
theluketaylor 3y ago
Some building code elements are absolutely critical, like the burn time required for external walls and then increasing it for shared walls. That absolutely saves lives and should be sacrosanct. Plenty of other code requirements are overly bureaucratic and do nothing but add expense, like ever decreasing maximum distance between outlets. Zoning is the same way. Some of the rules are critical, but most are existing residents enforcing their preferences via bylaw. Ensuring adequate buffers between truly industrial uses and residential is a great use of zoning. Not being able to open low impact business like a barber shop or cafe in a residential neighbourhood makes absolutely no sense. Lot coverage percentages, parking minimums, height restrictions that don't allow gentle density, and exclusive single family zoning all need to go. More than a century of code and zoning restriction have piled on each other over and over (with zoning often deeply rooted in racist policies). It's long past time to identify the safety critical ones and eject all the rest. It's true of zoning moreso than building code, but both could use a serious refactor.
- quesera 3y ago
  Many of your "bad" examples have good justifications too. You might not notice the value because the problems they were designed to prevent do not occur! Exclusive SFH zoning is the least-frequently (but still not never) defensible, IMO. The others can be reasonable.
amanaplanacanal 3y ago
Keeping heavy industry away from residential is probably a good thing. Keeping out multifamily and retail is the problem.
- beaeglebeach 3y ago
  This is easily obtainable without zoning by buying in a subdivision with CC&Rs excluding industry.