5 ms·

Opposition to the sand-glassing of Gaza by Israel is not encouragement of harassment. Nor am I aware of any substantial number of students encouraging the hara

Opposition to the sand-glassing of Gaza by Israel is not encouragement of harassment. Nor am I aware of any substantial number of students encouraging the harassment of Jewish students. A shocking number of student groups claimed something akin to "Israel brought [this attack] upon itself," which, while somewhere between tone deaf and despicable is also not encouraging harassment. On the other hand, you do have legitimate harassment of the people who made these statements. [1] [1] https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2023/11/19/doxxing-truck-targets-yale-harvard-students-on-day-of-the-game/ https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2023/11/19/doxxing-truck-targ...

qaq 3y ago
A shocking number of students openly support Hamas and like to chant "from the river to the sea ..." and that just at the surface level. If you look at say UCLA things are far more grim than posting "tone deaf" msgs.
- drawkward 3y ago
  You are conflating use of the phrase "from the river to the sea..." with support for Hamas. The phrase has been used in many ways, and depending on the context, could have different meanings: Benjamin Netanyahu himself was using a map that espoused a "river to the sea" vision of Israel at the UN. [1] A different version "between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty" was a founding ideological tenet of Israel's Likud party (which Netanyahu represents), though it has subsequently been dropped. [2][3] [1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-brandishes-map-of-israel-that-includes-west-bank-and-gaza-at-un-speech/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-brand... [2] https://www.thenation.com/article/world/its-time-to-confront-israels-version-of-from-the-river-to-the-sea/ https://www.thenation.com/article/world/its-time-to-confront... [3] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/09/us/politics/river-to-the-sea-israel-gaza-palestinians.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/09/us/politics/river-to-the-... One could reasonably support a free Palestine without advocating support for Hamas, or support for violence against Jewish people. Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "if you look at UCLA"? That is merely a suggestion of something, without an argument, much less evidence.
  - qaq 3y ago
    Netanyahhu is student or professor at elite US university? There are jewish students marching with Israeli flags chanting "from the river to the sea Isreal will be free" on campuses? Would equivalent behavior be allowed toward any other group on campus?
    - drawkward 3y ago
      I guess you and I see different things: I see people protesting Israel's response to Hamas' attacks of October 7th. You seem to see harassment of Jewish students. I don't think we will ever close that gap.
      - qaq 3y ago
        So in your opinion "From the river to the sea ..." is just a protest slogan ? There are polls showing support specifically for Hamas not for Palestinian liberation cause among students. It's very high. The Hamas goals are articulated very clearly. It's comforting to pretend it's just to support Palestinian cause but it's def not just that.
        drawkward 3y ago
        >There are polls showing support specifically for Hamas not for Palestinian liberation cause among students. Link please? I'm not finding any.
  - tptacek 3y ago
    The "river to the sea" slogan is deeply poisoned and has been used by every conceivable bad actor, from west bank settlers and supporters of a "Greater Israel" to Hezbollah, and all points between. It is reasonable for people hearing that slogan to assume the worst. That doesn't mean people who use it are per se antisemitic (or per se Kahanist). But it does obligate its users to explain themselves, and when you're explaining you're losing. Everybody would be better off abandoning those words.
    - 3y ago

qaq 3y ago

A shocking number of students openly support Hamas and like to chant "from the river to the sea ..." and that just at the surface level. If you look at say UCLA things are far more grim than posting "tone deaf" msgs.

drawkward 3y ago
You are conflating use of the phrase "from the river to the sea..." with support for Hamas. The phrase has been used in many ways, and depending on the context, could have different meanings: Benjamin Netanyahu himself was using a map that espoused a "river to the sea" vision of Israel at the UN. [1] A different version "between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty" was a founding ideological tenet of Israel's Likud party (which Netanyahu represents), though it has subsequently been dropped. [2][3] [1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-brandishes-map-of-israel-that-includes-west-bank-and-gaza-at-un-speech/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-brand... [2] https://www.thenation.com/article/world/its-time-to-confront-israels-version-of-from-the-river-to-the-sea/ https://www.thenation.com/article/world/its-time-to-confront... [3] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/09/us/politics/river-to-the-sea-israel-gaza-palestinians.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/09/us/politics/river-to-the-... One could reasonably support a free Palestine without advocating support for Hamas, or support for violence against Jewish people. Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "if you look at UCLA"? That is merely a suggestion of something, without an argument, much less evidence.
- qaq 3y ago
  Netanyahhu is student or professor at elite US university? There are jewish students marching with Israeli flags chanting "from the river to the sea Isreal will be free" on campuses? Would equivalent behavior be allowed toward any other group on campus?
  - drawkward 3y ago
    I guess you and I see different things: I see people protesting Israel's response to Hamas' attacks of October 7th. You seem to see harassment of Jewish students. I don't think we will ever close that gap.
    - qaq 3y ago
      So in your opinion "From the river to the sea ..." is just a protest slogan ? There are polls showing support specifically for Hamas not for Palestinian liberation cause among students. It's very high. The Hamas goals are articulated very clearly. It's comforting to pretend it's just to support Palestinian cause but it's def not just that.
      - drawkward 3y ago
        >There are polls showing support specifically for Hamas not for Palestinian liberation cause among students. Link please? I'm not finding any.
- tptacek 3y ago
  The "river to the sea" slogan is deeply poisoned and has been used by every conceivable bad actor, from west bank settlers and supporters of a "Greater Israel" to Hezbollah, and all points between. It is reasonable for people hearing that slogan to assume the worst. That doesn't mean people who use it are per se antisemitic (or per se Kahanist). But it does obligate its users to explain themselves, and when you're explaining you're losing. Everybody would be better off abandoning those words.
  - 3y ago