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> This is a call for service providers in these dumps to move to Passkeys faster Does it really matter? I think all of my accounts use 20char autogenerated pas

> This is a call for service providers in these dumps to move to Passkeys faster Does it really matter? I think all of my accounts use 20char autogenerated passwords from google that are unique for each account. So if one is breached, it’s just breached. Seems to have the same protection as a passkey.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
You are the outlier. This is not the norm. Passkeys do this for the broad public, with the keys backed up to ecosystem cloud storage and defended by strong security systems at Apple and Google. Lets not argue passkey sovereignty in this thread, there are efforts ongoing to make them exportable so you can manage them in password managers. I agree it is a valid concern to prevent ecosystems holding users hostage. Long strings in password managers was a shim until Passkeys got here, because passwords suck. This is a well worn path in enterprise with PKI. Passkeys are PKI for the Average Joe. Folks here will always have esoteric auth use cases, but you design for the average on this topic (consumer auth). https://passkeys.directory/ https://passkeys.directory/ https://passkeys.2fa.directory/us/ https://passkeys.2fa.directory/us/ https://bitwarden.com/blog/a-closer-look-at-password-statistics/ https://bitwarden.com/blog/a-closer-look-at-password-statist... > 19% of respondents said they used “password” as their password (!!!) > 52% use easily identifiable information in their passwords, such as company/brand names, well-known song lyrics, pet names, and names of loved ones > Best practices are still diluted by bad habits, with 85% reusing passwords across multiple sites and 58% relying on memory for their passwords > A majority (68%) of respondents manage passwords for 10+ sites or apps and yet 84% of respondents reuse passwords > More than half of respondents forget and reset their passwords on a regular basis > Around a quarter (20%) were affected by breaches and a majority (80%) were prompted to reset their passwords > Over half (56%) are excited about passwordless options, and 50% are using or would use ‘something you are’ forms of passwordless authentication
- c0nfused 3y ago
  As someone who is not at all excited about passkeys, I think they are just moving the average user into an existing enterprise. The enterprise being whatever Big Tech Company you trust the most. Then you gotta pass through one of the "trustworthy" tech companies to access anything, which is simultaneously great and also a huge ask as most of them are data vacuums.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    As someone who has to defend against credential spraying in a consumer IAM system at a fintech (which leads to financial and identity fraud), I am very excited about Passkeys. Perspectives will be driven by incentives and desired outcomes. I have the Cloudflare dashboard for our properties live and keep an eye on threat actors in realtime, as well as our identity provider dashboard around realtime Passkey uptake (at which point passwords are invalidated and unable to be downgraded back to). Providing a government credential can be used to bootstrap account recovery if all passkeys are lost. If you have concerns about Big Tech treating Passkeys in an anti competitive fashion, I would strongly encourage you to file a complaint with the FTC when that evidence is observed (as I mention in another comment here [1]). We need these primitives to deliver a better digital experience but also need to defend against fuckery using legal and regulatory mechanisms. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38502886 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38502886
- prepend 3y ago
  People using passkeys are the outlier too.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Google (top site for internet traffic) is defaulting to Passkeys: https://blog.google/technology/safety-security/passkeys-default-google-accounts/ https://blog.google/technology/safety-security/passkeys-defa... (Gmail has over 1.8 billion active users as of 2023; 22.22% of the world's population uses Google's mail service, so this is material for Passkey uptake) Amazon: https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/retail/amazon-passwordless-sign-in-passkey https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/retail/amazon-passwordless-... Uber: https://help.uber.com/riders/article/using-passkeys-to-sign-in?nodeId=61701cda-3615-43b2-8187-1440e91035d8 https://help.uber.com/riders/article/using-passkeys-to-sign-... Ebay: https://www.ebay.com/help/account/signing-account/signing-account?id=4189 https://www.ebay.com/help/account/signing-account/signing-ac... Github: https://github.blog/2023-09-21-passkeys-are-generally-available/ https://github.blog/2023-09-21-passkeys-are-generally-availa... Link by Stripe: https://app.link.com/ https://app.link.com/ Docusign: https://www.docusign.com/blog/docusign-customers-can-upgrade-passwords-to-passkeys https://www.docusign.com/blog/docusign-customers-can-upgrade... Tiktok: https://newsroom.tiktok.com/en-us/passkeys-fido-alliance https://newsroom.tiktok.com/en-us/passkeys-fido-alliance (TikTok has over 1.677 billion users globally, out of which 1.1 billion are its monthly active users) Google's Titan key now supports Passkeys if you need a secure hardware authenticator: https://www.wired.com/story/google-titan-security-key-passkeys/ https://www.wired.com/story/google-titan-security-key-passke... | https://store.google.com/us/product/titan_security_key?hl=en-US https://store.google.com/us/product/titan_security_key?hl=en...
    - prepend 3y ago
      These stats are supports passkeys, not how many users use them. I like passkeys, they’re nice. But I think you want to compare passkey users to complex password users. I know lots of “normies” and they all just accept whatever their iPhone does. Which is creates a high entropy unique password for each site.
waynesonfire 3y ago
absolutely, password managers have deprecated have i been pwned. It probably does more harm than good now.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

You are the outlier. This is not the norm. Passkeys do this for the broad public, with the keys backed up to ecosystem cloud storage and defended by strong security systems at Apple and Google. Lets not argue passkey sovereignty in this thread, there are efforts ongoing to make them exportable so you can manage them in password managers. I agree it is a valid concern to prevent ecosystems holding users hostage. Long strings in password managers was a shim until Passkeys got here, because passwords suck. This is a well worn path in enterprise with PKI. Passkeys are PKI for the Average Joe. Folks here will always have esoteric auth use cases, but you design for the average on this topic (consumer auth). https://passkeys.directory/ https://passkeys.directory/ https://passkeys.2fa.directory/us/ https://passkeys.2fa.directory/us/ https://bitwarden.com/blog/a-closer-look-at-password-statistics/ https://bitwarden.com/blog/a-closer-look-at-password-statist... > 19% of respondents said they used “password” as their password (!!!) > 52% use easily identifiable information in their passwords, such as company/brand names, well-known song lyrics, pet names, and names of loved ones > Best practices are still diluted by bad habits, with 85% reusing passwords across multiple sites and 58% relying on memory for their passwords > A majority (68%) of respondents manage passwords for 10+ sites or apps and yet 84% of respondents reuse passwords > More than half of respondents forget and reset their passwords on a regular basis > Around a quarter (20%) were affected by breaches and a majority (80%) were prompted to reset their passwords > Over half (56%) are excited about passwordless options, and 50% are using or would use ‘something you are’ forms of passwordless authentication

c0nfused 3y ago
As someone who is not at all excited about passkeys, I think they are just moving the average user into an existing enterprise. The enterprise being whatever Big Tech Company you trust the most. Then you gotta pass through one of the "trustworthy" tech companies to access anything, which is simultaneously great and also a huge ask as most of them are data vacuums.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  As someone who has to defend against credential spraying in a consumer IAM system at a fintech (which leads to financial and identity fraud), I am very excited about Passkeys. Perspectives will be driven by incentives and desired outcomes. I have the Cloudflare dashboard for our properties live and keep an eye on threat actors in realtime, as well as our identity provider dashboard around realtime Passkey uptake (at which point passwords are invalidated and unable to be downgraded back to). Providing a government credential can be used to bootstrap account recovery if all passkeys are lost. If you have concerns about Big Tech treating Passkeys in an anti competitive fashion, I would strongly encourage you to file a complaint with the FTC when that evidence is observed (as I mention in another comment here [1]). We need these primitives to deliver a better digital experience but also need to defend against fuckery using legal and regulatory mechanisms. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38502886 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38502886
prepend 3y ago
People using passkeys are the outlier too.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Google (top site for internet traffic) is defaulting to Passkeys: https://blog.google/technology/safety-security/passkeys-default-google-accounts/ https://blog.google/technology/safety-security/passkeys-defa... (Gmail has over 1.8 billion active users as of 2023; 22.22% of the world's population uses Google's mail service, so this is material for Passkey uptake) Amazon: https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/retail/amazon-passwordless-sign-in-passkey https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/retail/amazon-passwordless-... Uber: https://help.uber.com/riders/article/using-passkeys-to-sign-in?nodeId=61701cda-3615-43b2-8187-1440e91035d8 https://help.uber.com/riders/article/using-passkeys-to-sign-... Ebay: https://www.ebay.com/help/account/signing-account/signing-account?id=4189 https://www.ebay.com/help/account/signing-account/signing-ac... Github: https://github.blog/2023-09-21-passkeys-are-generally-available/ https://github.blog/2023-09-21-passkeys-are-generally-availa... Link by Stripe: https://app.link.com/ https://app.link.com/ Docusign: https://www.docusign.com/blog/docusign-customers-can-upgrade-passwords-to-passkeys https://www.docusign.com/blog/docusign-customers-can-upgrade... Tiktok: https://newsroom.tiktok.com/en-us/passkeys-fido-alliance https://newsroom.tiktok.com/en-us/passkeys-fido-alliance (TikTok has over 1.677 billion users globally, out of which 1.1 billion are its monthly active users) Google's Titan key now supports Passkeys if you need a secure hardware authenticator: https://www.wired.com/story/google-titan-security-key-passkeys/ https://www.wired.com/story/google-titan-security-key-passke... | https://store.google.com/us/product/titan_security_key?hl=en-US https://store.google.com/us/product/titan_security_key?hl=en...
  - prepend 3y ago
    These stats are supports passkeys, not how many users use them. I like passkeys, they’re nice. But I think you want to compare passkey users to complex password users. I know lots of “normies” and they all just accept whatever their iPhone does. Which is creates a high entropy unique password for each site.

waynesonfire 3y ago

absolutely, password managers have deprecated have i been pwned. It probably does more harm than good now.