4 ms·

Here have a Kleenex ...err... I mean tissue.

cxr 3y ago
That's not the same argument. Even if we're being generous, you're making the inverse argument. Except not, because "it's only a podcast if you use an iPod to listen to it" is not my argument. My argument is it's only a podcast if you can listen to it on an iPod—i.e. something you'd do because that's how you like to listen to things. A piece of audio that you can only listen to if someone installs a proprietary app on a limited set of devices and taps the play button is definitely not a podcast. A podcast that only has a single episode that was distributed as a FLAC copied to CD-R and never uploaded to the Web or anywhere else on the Internet and that only one person has ever listened to and when they did listen to it, it was using Amarok on a 2004 desktop from Gateway can absolutely call itself a podcast.
- latexr 3y ago
  The definitions I found don’t say anything about the proprietary nature of the app, but do mention it has to be downloadable via the internet. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38521593 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38521593
  - cxr 3y ago
    Huh? Spotify is proprietary. Not sure why you'd expect a dictionary to say that or why you'd want it to.
    - latexr 3y ago
      > Not sure why you'd expect a dictionary to say that or why you'd want it to. Because you wrote: > A piece of audio that you can only listen to if someone installs a proprietary app on a limited set of devices and taps the play button is definitely not a podcast. So it seems that not being proprietary is an important part of your definition of podcast.
      - cxr 3y ago
        Proprietary apps are allowed to play podcasts. Audio that's only available within the ringfence of those proprietary apps is not. If it's not published as a digital file that I can get my hands on to play, save a copy, transcode, and sync to any of the devices under my control how I want, then it's not a podcast. Podcasts are about user control—over when they listen to it, where they listen to it, and how they listen to it. If you violate any one of these you're not talking about a podcast. You may be operating a successful platform, and you may have a billion marketing schmucks bandying the word around, and you may have a gajillion people with a fuzzy idea in their heads of what a podcast is and who are comfortable playing along, but it doesn't change what a podcast fundamentally is.
        gainda 3y ago
        i think a podcast is more fundamentally about delivering audio content automatically than it is about user control. the term didn't originate until that function started happening. if it was an issue to be exclusive to one program then we absolutely would have a different term by now but society has been content to continue calling exclusive shows podcasts. shows that moved to Spotify are otherwise unchanged - so its not about control, its about how its distributed
        cxr 3y ago
        > i think a podcast is more fundamentally about delivering audio content automatically than it is about user control. Sorry, but no. There's a reasonable argument to be made against my position that says that podcasting is really about empowering creators, rather than listeners, through guerilla/indie distribution channels that don't have to get signoff from anyone (e.g. traditional media companies) other than themselves when summoning the willpower to press the "upload" button. But those are really the only two positions a serious person can take. The automatic delivery connection is wrong. Not to diminish Dave Winer's work and influence, but RSS enclosures and podcasting were independently invented. The broad definition of podcast that people are advocating for elsewhere in this thread, wherein people refer to recordings posted to YouTube and Twitter as "podcasts" doesn't validate the automatic delivery angle, either. > if it was an issue to be exclusive to one program then we absolutely would have a different term by now Nah. This is a well-known junk argument. (Not about podcasting specifically, but as an illegal conversational "move". One step removed from begging the question.)

cxr 3y ago

That's not the same argument. Even if we're being generous, you're making the inverse argument. Except not, because "it's only a podcast if you use an iPod to listen to it" is not my argument. My argument is it's only a podcast if you can listen to it on an iPod—i.e. something you'd do because that's how you like to listen to things. A piece of audio that you can only listen to if someone installs a proprietary app on a limited set of devices and taps the play button is definitely not a podcast. A podcast that only has a single episode that was distributed as a FLAC copied to CD-R and never uploaded to the Web or anywhere else on the Internet and that only one person has ever listened to and when they did listen to it, it was using Amarok on a 2004 desktop from Gateway can absolutely call itself a podcast.

latexr 3y ago
The definitions I found don’t say anything about the proprietary nature of the app, but do mention it has to be downloadable via the internet. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38521593 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38521593
- cxr 3y ago
  Huh? Spotify is proprietary. Not sure why you'd expect a dictionary to say that or why you'd want it to.
  - latexr 3y ago
    > Not sure why you'd expect a dictionary to say that or why you'd want it to. Because you wrote: > A piece of audio that you can only listen to if someone installs a proprietary app on a limited set of devices and taps the play button is definitely not a podcast. So it seems that not being proprietary is an important part of your definition of podcast.
    - cxr 3y ago
      Proprietary apps are allowed to play podcasts. Audio that's only available within the ringfence of those proprietary apps is not. If it's not published as a digital file that I can get my hands on to play, save a copy, transcode, and sync to any of the devices under my control how I want, then it's not a podcast. Podcasts are about user control—over when they listen to it, where they listen to it, and how they listen to it. If you violate any one of these you're not talking about a podcast. You may be operating a successful platform, and you may have a billion marketing schmucks bandying the word around, and you may have a gajillion people with a fuzzy idea in their heads of what a podcast is and who are comfortable playing along, but it doesn't change what a podcast fundamentally is.
      - gainda 3y ago
        i think a podcast is more fundamentally about delivering audio content automatically than it is about user control. the term didn't originate until that function started happening. if it was an issue to be exclusive to one program then we absolutely would have a different term by now but society has been content to continue calling exclusive shows podcasts. shows that moved to Spotify are otherwise unchanged - so its not about control, its about how its distributed
        cxr 3y ago
        > i think a podcast is more fundamentally about delivering audio content automatically than it is about user control. Sorry, but no. There's a reasonable argument to be made against my position that says that podcasting is really about empowering creators, rather than listeners, through guerilla/indie distribution channels that don't have to get signoff from anyone (e.g. traditional media companies) other than themselves when summoning the willpower to press the "upload" button. But those are really the only two positions a serious person can take. The automatic delivery connection is wrong. Not to diminish Dave Winer's work and influence, but RSS enclosures and podcasting were independently invented. The broad definition of podcast that people are advocating for elsewhere in this thread, wherein people refer to recordings posted to YouTube and Twitter as "podcasts" doesn't validate the automatic delivery angle, either. > if it was an issue to be exclusive to one program then we absolutely would have a different term by now Nah. This is a well-known junk argument. (Not about podcasting specifically, but as an illegal conversational "move". One step removed from begging the question.)