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The reason why China is able to move so fast is ironically the reason why there's so much division between the West and the east. China is centrally controlle

The reason why China is able to move so fast is ironically the reason why there's so much division between the West and the east. China is centrally controlled. There's no debate about climate change in this context. In the US everything is a debate. Every single thing. So we spend more time debating then getting things done.

tomekf 3y ago
China is producing more CO2 in a week than many more countries in a year. Same with coal production. They also build many new coal plants (together with atomic ones). China should be first place to address emission.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > China is producing more CO2 in a week than many more countries in a year. Well, yeah, China is more than 52 times the population of many other countries, so that's hardly surprising.
  - corethree 3y ago
    Right. It needs to be measured per capita. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhouse_gas_emissions_per_capita#/media/File:20210626_Variwide_chart_of_greenhouse_gas_emissions_per_capita_by_country.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhous... From here it's easily seen that An individual in the US is on average one of the worst offenders while an individual from China is doing extremely well.
- corethree 3y ago
  You're right. We should be glad it's centrally controlled. If business interests in china were able to insert their own democratic opinion into the debate the problem would be much worse. It begs the question how good is democracy when huge powerful corporate entities with only business interests in mind are able to participate in a democracy? There's no clear answer here.
s1artibartfast 3y ago
There is plenty of debate and compromise about climate change in China, it just happens behind closed doors. This includes basically all the same questions in the US: Is it real, how bad will it be, what is the acceptable cost for mitigation, how much mitigation is worth it. Stance and strategy on all of these things can and do change in China. Furthermore, this is a public discussion about climate change in China. The Chinese public ranks climate change as higher priority than in the US. There are several reasons for this, not all of which are top down propaganda. For example, the Chinese population has more recent, immediate, and extreme experience with the negative impacts of environmental disruption.
- corethree 3y ago
  Right, of course there is always compromise. But this compromise is made by a third party authority with NO business interest: The authoritarian government. This type of compromise is unbiased and that's why it's able to move faster and be more effective. And like you said, public opinion can be shifted via propaganda and manipulation towards more environmentally positive outcomes. In the US compromise is different. Compromise is active corporate entities with zero interest in the environment trying to further their own self serving goals. When two people are debating with each other they use any means necessary to stop the other party which usually results in a a standstill outcome where nothing is changed. You can see why it's less effective. Additionally, because of freedom of the press propaganda, from both sides can influence public opinion which leads to division of opinion.

tomekf 3y ago

China is producing more CO2 in a week than many more countries in a year. Same with coal production. They also build many new coal plants (together with atomic ones). China should be first place to address emission.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> China is producing more CO2 in a week than many more countries in a year. Well, yeah, China is more than 52 times the population of many other countries, so that's hardly surprising.
- corethree 3y ago
  Right. It needs to be measured per capita. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhouse_gas_emissions_per_capita#/media/File:20210626_Variwide_chart_of_greenhouse_gas_emissions_per_capita_by_country.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhous... From here it's easily seen that An individual in the US is on average one of the worst offenders while an individual from China is doing extremely well.
corethree 3y ago
You're right. We should be glad it's centrally controlled. If business interests in china were able to insert their own democratic opinion into the debate the problem would be much worse. It begs the question how good is democracy when huge powerful corporate entities with only business interests in mind are able to participate in a democracy? There's no clear answer here.

s1artibartfast 3y ago

There is plenty of debate and compromise about climate change in China, it just happens behind closed doors. This includes basically all the same questions in the US: Is it real, how bad will it be, what is the acceptable cost for mitigation, how much mitigation is worth it. Stance and strategy on all of these things can and do change in China. Furthermore, this is a public discussion about climate change in China. The Chinese public ranks climate change as higher priority than in the US. There are several reasons for this, not all of which are top down propaganda. For example, the Chinese population has more recent, immediate, and extreme experience with the negative impacts of environmental disruption.

corethree 3y ago
Right, of course there is always compromise. But this compromise is made by a third party authority with NO business interest: The authoritarian government. This type of compromise is unbiased and that's why it's able to move faster and be more effective. And like you said, public opinion can be shifted via propaganda and manipulation towards more environmentally positive outcomes. In the US compromise is different. Compromise is active corporate entities with zero interest in the environment trying to further their own self serving goals. When two people are debating with each other they use any means necessary to stop the other party which usually results in a a standstill outcome where nothing is changed. You can see why it's less effective. Additionally, because of freedom of the press propaganda, from both sides can influence public opinion which leads to division of opinion.