3 ms·

You don't need a formal conspiracy when you have an elite with converging interests.

godelski 3y ago
There's a joke from a comedian I forget if it is L̶o̶u̶i̶s̶ ̶C̶K̶ George Carlin o̶r̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶. But basically is along the lines that you don't have explicitly collude when you all come from the same backgrounds. The interests are aligned already. It's pointing out that representatives need to actually be from representative populations of people. But he did it in a funny way, this comment really isn't. Edit: thanks lo_zamoyski. Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAFd4FdbJxs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAFd4FdbJxs
- lo_zamoyski 3y ago
  George Carlin, and he wasn't joking. This was a point he made during an interview in all seriousness.
  - godelski 3y ago
    That was it thank! Updated my post
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  Might be the comedian Avram Chomsky.
- kjkjadksj 3y ago
  If you want to read about how the media is also roped into these incentive structures, read Manufacturing Consent by Herman and Chomsky.
  - smolder 3y ago
    There's no P in Chomsky, FYI.
    - kjkjadksj 3y ago
      Thanks, fixed.
      - godelski 3y ago
        Lots of corrections in this thread chain haha. It's actually a delight to see a chain of "ops, thanks" and no one fighting.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  If only the middle and lower class could do that. But they argue amongst each other over the relative scraps. Even arguing what a "middle class" is these days.
- pastacacioepepe 3y ago
  Yes I basically took verbatim what George Carlin said because it's one of the best points of view on "conspiracies" I've ever heard. I don't understand how did you get the impression that I was trying to be funny? It's a fairly serious description of the reality we live in.
  - godelski 3y ago
    > it's one of the best points of view on "conspiracies" I've ever heard. It's actually how I often think of conspiracy. Not a bunch of men sitting in a room plotting together but a bunch of independent actors with convergent incentives. Also my litmus test for real bona fide conspiracy (Watergate or Contra Affair) vs crackpottery is if it can be boiled down to "wizards did it." It's always interesting that conspiracies work out to essentially making one feel safe in a world of all powerful but evil men rather than the discomfort of a chaotic world. Flat Earth stands out a bit because I still don't know who gains from it... > I don't understand how did you get the impression that I was trying to be funny? I didn't. I said Carlin was funny and that I was not. I honestly wasn't even aware you were referencing Carlin (at a direct level at least, since I did make the connection). It just reminded me of his statement (which now I understand as your intent. The subtle nod reference).
    - whatshisface 3y ago
      Conspiracies of the original kind do happen. Like the plot to kill Ceasar.
      - godelski 3y ago
        Of course, see my reference to Watergate and Contra Affairs. Would you not say those are real bona fide conspiracies of the original kind? The litmus test is not about convergence, it is "wizards did it." Convergence is just a common kind of thing that crackpot conspiracies develop around. It's more rational when you understand convergence because crackpot conspiracy often is re-framed as a misinterpretation of the data. Qualifiers are also important.
    - 3y ago

There's a joke from a comedian I forget if it is L̶o̶u̶i̶s̶ ̶C̶K̶ George Carlin o̶r̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶. But basically is along the lines that you don't have explicitly collude when you all come from the same backgrounds. The interests are aligned already. It's pointing out that representatives need to actually be from representative populations of people. But he did it in a funny way, this comment really isn't. Edit: thanks lo_zamoyski. Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAFd4FdbJxs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAFd4FdbJxs

lo_zamoyski 3y ago
George Carlin, and he wasn't joking. This was a point he made during an interview in all seriousness.
- godelski 3y ago
  That was it thank! Updated my post
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
avgcorrection 3y ago
Might be the comedian Avram Chomsky.
kjkjadksj 3y ago
If you want to read about how the media is also roped into these incentive structures, read Manufacturing Consent by Herman and Chomsky.
- smolder 3y ago
  There's no P in Chomsky, FYI.
  - kjkjadksj 3y ago
    Thanks, fixed.
    - godelski 3y ago
      Lots of corrections in this thread chain haha. It's actually a delight to see a chain of "ops, thanks" and no one fighting.
johnnyanmac 3y ago
If only the middle and lower class could do that. But they argue amongst each other over the relative scraps. Even arguing what a "middle class" is these days.
pastacacioepepe 3y ago
Yes I basically took verbatim what George Carlin said because it's one of the best points of view on "conspiracies" I've ever heard. I don't understand how did you get the impression that I was trying to be funny? It's a fairly serious description of the reality we live in.
- godelski 3y ago
  > it's one of the best points of view on "conspiracies" I've ever heard. It's actually how I often think of conspiracy. Not a bunch of men sitting in a room plotting together but a bunch of independent actors with convergent incentives. Also my litmus test for real bona fide conspiracy (Watergate or Contra Affair) vs crackpottery is if it can be boiled down to "wizards did it." It's always interesting that conspiracies work out to essentially making one feel safe in a world of all powerful but evil men rather than the discomfort of a chaotic world. Flat Earth stands out a bit because I still don't know who gains from it... > I don't understand how did you get the impression that I was trying to be funny? I didn't. I said Carlin was funny and that I was not. I honestly wasn't even aware you were referencing Carlin (at a direct level at least, since I did make the connection). It just reminded me of his statement (which now I understand as your intent. The subtle nod reference).
  - whatshisface 3y ago
    Conspiracies of the original kind do happen. Like the plot to kill Ceasar.
    - godelski 3y ago
      Of course, see my reference to Watergate and Contra Affairs. Would you not say those are real bona fide conspiracies of the original kind? The litmus test is not about convergence, it is "wizards did it." Convergence is just a common kind of thing that crackpot conspiracies develop around. It's more rational when you understand convergence because crackpot conspiracy often is re-framed as a misinterpretation of the data. Qualifiers are also important.
  - 3y ago