4 ms·

You sound like a fucking tyrant, my guy.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Because I have to live in a rapidly changing world where the climate might be unlivable for billions of people (heat, crop failures, sea level rise, more powerful storm events) [1]? Yeah, certainly to people who have gotten their way for 100 years dumping their externalities on the planet [2], making changes might sound like tyranny when you're used to "freedom" to do whatever you want without consequences. Freedom has limits, and boundaries where one's rights end and the other's rights begin. Can't take the lizard brain out of the human I suppose. It's silly really, as besides having to switch to renewables, EVs, a bit less meat consumption and air travel [3] [4] [5] [6], not much hardship is being asked for (the most impactful thing one can do is have less or no kids, and lots of folks are opting for that already [7] [8] [9]). I have kids, and handing them a world they can survive in for the next 100 years is important to me. We might have different objectives, mental models, beliefs in climate change and the potential risk outcomes, etc. I believe in climate change and that extraordinary effort is required to mitigate it, and that is the position I operate and argue from. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38072491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38072491 (citations) [2] https://ourworldindata.org/contributed-most-global-co2 https://ourworldindata.org/contributed-most-global-co2 ("Our World in Data: Who has contributed most to global CO2 emissions?") [3] https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa7541 https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa7541 ("The climate mitigation gap: education and government recommendations miss the most effective individual actions") [4] https://www.science.org/do/10.1126/science.aan7083/full/greenhouse_drupal_copyedited-01-1644908613280.png https://www.science.org/do/10.1126/science.aan7083/full/gree... (emissions savings graphic by action) [5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37502924 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37502924 (citations) [6] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/20/beef-usda-climate-crisis-meat-consumption https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/20/beef-usd... ("High steaks society: who are the 12% of people consuming half of all beef in the US?") [7] https://www.vox.com/23971366/declining-birth-rate-fertility-babies-children https://www.vox.com/23971366/declining-birth-rate-fertility-... ("You can’t even pay people to have more kids") [8] https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rates/ https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rates/ ("Our World in Data: Fertility Rates") [9] https://ourworldindata.org/images/published/World-population-by-level-of-fertility-without-projections_850.webp https://ourworldindata.org/images/published/World-population... ("Our World In Data: World population by level of fertility over time 1950-2010") ("In God We Trust, All Others Must Bring Data")
- jpsouth 3y ago
  I don’t have children, nor do I want them, and handing yours a world they can survive in for the next 100 years is important to me. I don’t understand what is so difficult about this.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Onward, and thank you. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.
- andrei_says_ 3y ago
  Thank you for all the resources.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  As someone who's never wanted children, I'm always surprised by the apparent unconcern about the planet from those who do. I suppose I accept that we may destroy the Earth once I've finished with it (As Jim Morrison so elegantly stated, "I'm just trying to get my kicks in before the whole shithouse goes up in flames"), but I don't like it, and as a kid I had always imagined that the adults would figure it out. Having become something approximating an adult myself now, I'm beginning to doubt that we'll come up with enough solutions in time, so I suppose any good news on that front is welcome.
dang 3y ago
Please don't break the site guidelines like this, no matter how wrong someone is or you feel they are. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Because I have to live in a rapidly changing world where the climate might be unlivable for billions of people (heat, crop failures, sea level rise, more powerful storm events) [1]? Yeah, certainly to people who have gotten their way for 100 years dumping their externalities on the planet [2], making changes might sound like tyranny when you're used to "freedom" to do whatever you want without consequences. Freedom has limits, and boundaries where one's rights end and the other's rights begin. Can't take the lizard brain out of the human I suppose. It's silly really, as besides having to switch to renewables, EVs, a bit less meat consumption and air travel [3] [4] [5] [6], not much hardship is being asked for (the most impactful thing one can do is have less or no kids, and lots of folks are opting for that already [7] [8] [9]). I have kids, and handing them a world they can survive in for the next 100 years is important to me. We might have different objectives, mental models, beliefs in climate change and the potential risk outcomes, etc. I believe in climate change and that extraordinary effort is required to mitigate it, and that is the position I operate and argue from. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38072491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38072491 (citations) [2] https://ourworldindata.org/contributed-most-global-co2 https://ourworldindata.org/contributed-most-global-co2 ("Our World in Data: Who has contributed most to global CO2 emissions?") [3] https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa7541 https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa7541 ("The climate mitigation gap: education and government recommendations miss the most effective individual actions") [4] https://www.science.org/do/10.1126/science.aan7083/full/greenhouse_drupal_copyedited-01-1644908613280.png https://www.science.org/do/10.1126/science.aan7083/full/gree... (emissions savings graphic by action) [5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37502924 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37502924 (citations) [6] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/20/beef-usda-climate-crisis-meat-consumption https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/20/beef-usd... ("High steaks society: who are the 12% of people consuming half of all beef in the US?") [7] https://www.vox.com/23971366/declining-birth-rate-fertility-babies-children https://www.vox.com/23971366/declining-birth-rate-fertility-... ("You can’t even pay people to have more kids") [8] https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rates/ https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rates/ ("Our World in Data: Fertility Rates") [9] https://ourworldindata.org/images/published/World-population-by-level-of-fertility-without-projections_850.webp https://ourworldindata.org/images/published/World-population... ("Our World In Data: World population by level of fertility over time 1950-2010") ("In God We Trust, All Others Must Bring Data")

jpsouth 3y ago
I don’t have children, nor do I want them, and handing yours a world they can survive in for the next 100 years is important to me. I don’t understand what is so difficult about this.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Onward, and thank you. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.
andrei_says_ 3y ago
Thank you for all the resources.
hotpotamus 3y ago
As someone who's never wanted children, I'm always surprised by the apparent unconcern about the planet from those who do. I suppose I accept that we may destroy the Earth once I've finished with it (As Jim Morrison so elegantly stated, "I'm just trying to get my kicks in before the whole shithouse goes up in flames"), but I don't like it, and as a kid I had always imagined that the adults would figure it out. Having become something approximating an adult myself now, I'm beginning to doubt that we'll come up with enough solutions in time, so I suppose any good news on that front is welcome.

dang 3y ago

Please don't break the site guidelines like this, no matter how wrong someone is or you feel they are. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.